JKD Naming Issues.

Discussion in 'JKD-Kali' started by arnisador, Jan 4, 2006.

  1. kroh

    kroh New Member

    I saw that article in the magazine. I won't tell you what I wanted to use it for. Straight promotion for the sake of making money. I can see trademarking the name to keep the frauds and want to be's from cashing in on something they don't understand, but the rest of it just seems like a lot of hype. If I want Big hype with little return, I can go see a Tom Cruise movie.

    God Bless America...
    Regards,
    Walt
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I think that's a bit harsh...but I have to agree that while some of it seemed motivated by love of their late relative, some of it seemed pretty clearly a gold old American marketing scheme. It's very hard for me to understand how this can happen without Dan Inosanto, for example.
     
  3. kroh

    kroh New Member

    Maybe I am being a bit brash as we are all on the outside of this looking in. There are some pretty good instructors out there using the name of Jeet Kune Do that have lineages that they can trace back to Lee. This manuever seems aimed at forming an organization that would bring all of the LJF/JKD guys under one banner. The problem that I see here is that Lee didn't want his "brand" of kung fu to come out like this. A systemized form locked into stone because ...this is the way that Bruce did it. They are basically turning what he tried to do back into what he was trying to escape from in the first place.

    I studied JKD for eight years under a certified instructor. I still train it all the time as it was a great way to train with a definate structure in the beginning. But the end result is to encourage you to break the pattern and see what else you can do with it. If we really want to study the way that Lee did then we have to investigate, disect and, integrate what we study. The articles I read on what the "Lee's" are trying to do sound more like Package, Market, and sell. Sounds pretty anethetical to me.

    Inosanto is staying out of it. This is pretty clear. What kind of a message if any does that send?

    Regards,
    Walt
     
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Sadly, I fear this is exactly correct. As soon as there is an "official" curriculum and a limited set of techniques, you'll have Kenpo or TKD instead.
     
  5. Silence_sucks

    Silence_sucks New Member

    You should also realise that guro inosanto was crucial in forming the name jeet kune do as it occured in 1968 while Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee were driving around in his car. The conversation involved western fencing and Lee commented that;"the most efficient means of countering in fencing was the stop-hit...When the the opponent attacks, you intercept his move with a thrust or hit of your own.." Lee then said "We should call our method the 'stop-hitting fist style;, or the 'intercepting fist style". Dan Inosanto then said; "What would that be in Chinese?" in which Lee replied "That would be Jeet Kune Do". Sifu lee passed jeet kune do over to Guro inosanto when he died and Guro inosanto intended to pass it on to Brandon lee, this is why Guro inosanto has never retired. Guro inosanto has been dedicated and creditied Sifu lee at every opportunity despite the fact that overall Guro inosanto has done more in his lifetime to progress jeet kune do than even sifu lee himself (fact not disrespect). Linda lee and Shannon Lee are 100% NOT certified in jeet kune do on the other hand and have only abused the memory of sifu lee by suing his best friend and using his image to market mars bar. It is a simple matter of money and linda lee cashing in, now every uncertified no name jeet kune do school can be sued by her as well as verified instructors. The only reason there is an 'Australian Jeet Kune Do Association' is because there is an agreement worked out between the association and the lee estate. It really is a travesty that this occurred in the name of money
     
  6. monkey

    monkey -== Banned ==-

    trade mark

    JKD has the trade mark of likeness just as the whole Elvis estate did the same!
    To some it is weird-to some protection of the name & likeness from any,
    faulse Elvis ect trying to cansh in!
    I remeber on Donahue one there was a guy claiming to be Peter Criss from Kiss & with out make up--Few knew of his looks!
    Till Peter showed up on stage & with many police!
     
  7. Silence_sucks

    Silence_sucks New Member

    ahh.. well no because the lee estate is not protecting Bruce Lees heratige at all, quite the opposite - they desacrated and sold out his image and his reputation for the sake of mars bars, insulted and caused trouble for Dan Inosanto the man who is ironicly protecting and continuing sifu lees work more than they are. Besides like i said neither linda or shannon lee are certified in jkd while Guro Inosanto is if anyone is cashing in its linda and shannon lee.
     
  8. halls

    halls New Member

    Where was the nucleus and these "original" instructors after Bruce's death? They didn't care for preserving JKD until they found a way to franchise it.

    Who knows where Bruce would have evolved the art if he were still alive. He could have kept it the same or developed it in a different path than Guro Dan. All that matters is that Guro Dan (and Richard Bustillo) chose to preserve the art and continue to teach. Not to capitalize on the profits to be made, but to teach those who wanted to learn the art of someone that they had admired.
     
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    This argument has made its way to the Wikipedia entry for JKD now, where editors are arguing over whether only certain instructors deserve to be listed as JKD practitioners/students.
     
  10. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I think that the argumant could be made that JKD could be considered a Generic term like Karate or Kung-fu, and that the Lee Estate should maybe have Copyrighted it as Bruce Lee's JKD or something. Maybe that sounds a little goofy, but it's really no more goofy than copyrighting a name that never was supposed to be used as defining an "art" anyway.
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    In fact, they did trademark/register it as "Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do" (see post #18), I assume for just that reason--if it's not "generic" (and I think there's a case that can be made there) then at least it's very widespread.
     
  12. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    oh yea, i just can not stand the DRAMA and politics
     
  13. mikesf

    mikesf New Member

    Not at all - there are so many people now claiming to 'teach JKD'. Everyone wants to be associated with Bruce Lee - that is the bottom line.

    People don't want what real JKD training is all about - they want the association to Bruce Lee and the perception of 'the ultimate martial art'.

    The people who actually are/were have to excert some kind of control and mediation otherwise the fakers will gain even more steam and in 10 years the general public will be even more misinformed.

    The arguments over it are endless - it's a philosophy, it's street fighting, it's a training method, it died with Bruce..

    It's just sometimes the fakers get so loud with their nonsense the people who actually had association with Lee are FORCED to do something about it.

    This is Shannon Lee's father - of course she has the right to trademark anything associated with her father's celebrity.

    The real guys (few really good ones - certified by Dan), who I've met who 'do JKD' don't obsess over the name - they just train.

    There is a lot more access to proven scientific martial arts now than there was in Lee's era - yet people still crave the Bruce Lee association an obsess over the name he gave to his art.


    Mike
     
  14. mikesf

    mikesf New Member

    ps..

    Did I just read that they sued Dan?

    If so that is aweful.. and taking things a little too far.

    of all the people who should be able to use it..


    Mike
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    This issue has been quiet for a while now...is it too optimistic of me to hope that it has passed by?
     
  16. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I'm sure it'll come up again, but as someone said in a previous post. The people that really train it don't worry about the name (Inosanto himself stopped using JKD and uses something different) they just train.
     
  17. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

    I trained in JKD a little under E. Barry Perrino. I think it would be a mistake to do so. It would go against all JKD stands for.
     
  18. JunFanFighter

    JunFanFighter New Member

    While I see a need to distinguish whos teaching true JKD I think its sad that the legality and red tape has to be associated with it when Lee himself always said 'Its only a name, Dont fuss over it'.
     
  19. kroh

    kroh New Member

    Of course you have students that want to say that they do 100% JKD from the source. Here is an opinion...

    Bruce really was never certified in anything. He was an actor with a vivid admiration for martial arts and studied it reverently. He was an inovator for his time as he said that everyone fussed too much over the trappings and not enough on the important stuff... actually being able to fight.

    Who cares who knows what from where if you can actually throw it down when you need too. I know young mid level (green and brown belts) in certain martial arts that can kick the crap out of some so called "masters." That shouldn't diminish the knowledge of the master or the ability of the mid level. Both have worked hard to get where they are. Both have knowledge, it is just that one is more dedicated to the functional part and one is more dedicated to the "social" part.

    The point here is... the ability to protect yourself or fight when called to (for legitimate reasons) should trump the need to put a logo on something or say that you know one art or another. In certain countries... they don't have foreign names for the arts... they pass it onto their kids and say... "this is for the family." Let's face it. When you need to protect yourself, the person you have to fight is not going to berate you after you kick his tail, saying, "that is not the way REAL JKD guys do a Lop Sao into a Tan dar... man you aint real!" If we know how to fight... the only sounds comming from our "poor opponent" should be muffled groans or pleas for an ambulance.

    In recent years, you hear a lot of jostling back and forth regarding who is doing JKD and who isn't. You here "this is my personal JKD..." and other associated nonsense. If you are doing something other than what Bruce did, it is not JKD. Jeet Kune Do means intercepting fist method... does your fighting include these methods? But that doesn not diminish what you are doing. You could have something more advanced and streamlined on your hands... just not JKD.

    In the end... what is more important, having the name brand that "might" work for you or the custom made which "will" work for you. Is it really that important to say that you do this or that or is that just wanting to belong to the group ("i do belong to this cool martial art, JKD...")?

    JKD is a cool art, but a lot of folks have taken what Lee started and moved on... Both crews have something valuable on their hands... to get bogged down in naming issues demeans both... Too bad.


    Regards,
    Walt
     
  20. Kailat

    Kailat KAILAT KOMBATIVES GROUP

    Walt: I totally agree
     

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