Is Pekiti Tirsia a Pure / Thoroughbred FMA?

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by truth_be_told, May 9, 2007.

  1. truth_be_told

    truth_be_told -== Banned ==-

    Fact: From Tuhon mouth, PTK is not pure indigenous

    u saying PTK has No Outside influence butPTK practitioner Website states:

    [GT Conrado was a Christian missionary early in life, and later a Chief of Police. Through their travels, Grand Tuhon and his brothers were able to encounter other Filipino martial arts systems, sometimes from demonstrations, and others by mortal combat. The Philippines became a virtual laboratory for Pekiti-Tirsia.]

    GT Conrado taught police baton techniques. So pure indigenous is the police baton ?

    Does a Laboratory involve some form of mixing experiment ?
    If PTK is 100% pure, why is the commonalities of other FMA system with PTK.
    They copy from PTK ?

    facts from Tuhon statements
    The In-Depth of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali: How effective it is or How effective it was By Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje, Jr.

    [If his father or grandfather or grandfather's father was a great fighter and had fought several; wars, including his cousins, uncles before his father, then you can trace the lineage of how a great fighter he is. Pekiti-Tirsia as a system is complete by itself. By the operation of the theory as a fighting art of Filipino origin the techniques that are in the Pekiti-Tirsia are the products of accumulated knowledge gained by our great ancestors long before the coming of the Spaniards in the Philippines.

    Since the art of Kali is Malay oriented fighting art and even the word "Kali" is a Malay word. The compilation of different fighting experiences were sorted out and the best technology was formulated by our great ancestors to fit into the proper time. Just as Lapu-Lapu killing Ferdinand Magellan without first using the kampilan. The body armor worn by Ferdinand Magellan didnit stop Datu Lapu-Lapu to use the hardened wooden Bahi as his first line of strategy to smash Magellan's armor including the head. It was then Magellan lost his senses then Lapu Lapu chopped his head with the use of the Kampilan. ...]

    If compiled and sorted, how can be pure 100% indigenous for art lasting no more than 2 generations ?

    the Malay dictionary show, 'Kali' = multiplication or how many times/how much?
  2. Dustin

    Dustin New Member


    Greetings. Question - what is your definition of pure-bred? I believe it is important to discussions of this nature to have a clear definition of a concept if it is to be discussed and applied. Especially if the concept has multiple meanings and can be taken in different ways. Here are few definitions of "pure":

    "not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material"
    "without any extraneous or unnecessary elements"
    "of unmixed origin or descent"

    Here are is the definition of thoroughbred:

    "pure breed or pure origin"
    "outstanding or first-class person or thing"

    Are you appealing to the first definition, given that Grand Tuhon Gaje uses the word "mixed" in his statements?

    Second, in regards to your first posting about the assumed inconsistency in Grand Tuhon Gaje's statements, having a good definition on the table might clear a lot up. Also, what someone says in one context about a particular topic may be context specific (I have not kept up with all of Grand Tuhon Gaje's blogs, so I don't know the context of his above statements) and cannot be generalized. So, not many conclusions (if any at all) can be drawn about the statements without asking the person directly who made the statements. Everyone makes apparent inconsistent statements - probably a lot more than we realize. It is such a problem for those who write books that it has its own name. It is called the Preface Paradox. It doesn't follow from that that we should stop believing someone or something, for example: that PTK is a pure-bred martial art, which I believe it is.

    Third, in regards to your most recent post, your question about a laboratory involving some form of mixing experiment (and I take it by your question that you are implying mixing did occur) does not follow from the quote you give. It could simply mean that PTK was tested against other systems, not mixed. Also, you seem to be implying that PTK has mixed with other systems because it shares commonalities with these other FMA systems. This also does not follow. It should be no surprise that PTK shares commonalities with other FMA systems, nor them with PTK, any more than it is not a surprise that any martial art anywhere shares commonalities. The objective is to protect yourself and hurt someone else. Since we are all human, naturally martial arts are going to have commonalities, even specific ones if historically rooted in a particular region, country, etc. Finally, it doesn't necessarily follow that if something is compiled and sorted, then it is not pure. If that is true, then I find it difficult to believe that the word pure can be applied to much of anything, even outside the martial art realm.

    Dustin B. Denson
    Pekiti-Tirsia Kali
  3. Ventura

    Ventura -== Banned ==-


    You're either being just a contratrian or you absolutely just don't get it.

    Pekiti Tirsia Kali was formulated and developed in the Philippines by a single family, the Tortals. Anthropologically, the knowledge came from contacts with other indigenous people of the area. Yes these other people came from somewhere else through migration, but how far in history do you want to go to prove the Pekiti Tirsia is not pure or indigenous?

    Different ethnic groups and different tribes and different families within those tribes develop their own fighting methods. These men went to war. Some might have shared their art and others probably chose to keep their art to themselves. Who knows. I certainly would keep my art to myself and only reveal it to close and trusted family members.

    In the Philippines even your cousins could be your enemy next week. It certainly behooves you to keep the knowledge for yourself or very close family members. If this is my attituded now what do you think their attitudes back then when disputes are terminated with the blade?

    Pekiti Tirsia Kali is a family art. Who knows how far it goes back. Tortal oral traditions says four generations. Maybe it began to take shape during those turbulent times in 1637 in the war against the Moro. Maybe it began to take shape from the Malays that immigrated in the Maharlikas. Maybe it began to take shape in the Malay and Indo and Thai lands (The Shri Vishayas) where the original tribes of Pilipinos to be came from? Who cares?

    Regardless of when or how it took shape it was a single family who developed it to what it is now. It was developed and formulated in the Philippines by Pilipinos. It is pure as it has been filtered through the generations of research and development by a single family and it is indigenous as it sprang from soil of Philippines watered by the blood of other members of the family that developed it.

    I am fond of sabong, cockfighting. When I was a kid I had a breed called a Bolinao. It's famous as native breed of fighting rooster. My Bolinao was fierce and never lost a bout. Recently I researched if it was true that Bolinaos are native birds. I found out that the speculation is that Bolinaos are the union of Labuyos (wild native chickens) with other (non-native )fighting roosters that have escaped. Over the hundreds? of years if developed to what it is today. The union created this breed of small, fierce high flying gamecocks. It developed in the wilds of the Philippine jungles. A pure Bolinao is feared by and admired by other Sabong afficionados. The tarek (spur) of my bolinao was almost 2 inches long and sharp. I was often accused of sharpening the tarek of my Bolinao. It was natural. To spar with my Bolinao means instant death. I don't care what historical research say about the origins of the Bolinao breed. Mine came from the jungles of the Philippines pure and indigenous. To me Pekiti Tirsia Kali is like my beloved Bolinao: made for fighting, fierce, pure and indigenous. It will terminate all that comes in its path.
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Everything comes from somewhere else! I don't fully see the point of these arguments. An art like Eskrido or Modern Arnis includes explicit Japanese influences, but all these arts were impacted by SE Asian and Spanish arts, if for no other reason than having to defend against such arts.

    It's far from clear to me that more "pure" is even better; it could mean refusing to incorporate new, good ideas too.
  5. Ventura

    Ventura -== Banned ==-

    Adobo is a pure and indigenous Pilipino dish. Tell me where does it come from?

    I'll tell you... from the natives of the Philippines!

    There were no beef dishes in the Philippines before the Spanish came.

    I've never seen any Spanish dish resembling Nilaga or Bulalo? Tell me where did these dishes come from?

    I'll tell you... from the natives of the Philippines!

    Ingredients can come from different places, but how it is cooked and how it is perfected is what you need to look at. When the ingredients grow out of the native soil it is a native ingredient. PTK is like a tasty purely Pilipino and purely indigenious dish created by the Tortal family.

    Pure is not better?

    What do you want to drink pure water or water from the sewers?

    Do you want to eat meat from free range cows or do you want the hormone infused beef?

    Do you want a diamond with inclusions? Or do you want a perfect colorless stone?

    24K gold (pure) is not better than 18k gold?

    Pure is not better? You must be crazy!
  6. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Now this thread is making sense...Fooooooooood! Hell yeah .....

    If the Pekititirsia folks claim their system is 100% pure cool by me...In the long run it isn't the system it is YOU who drives the bus and makes it work. So if purity is what floats your boat go for on and just do your thing!

    Now does anyone have a good recipe for Filipino Menudo?
  7. RRodriguez

    RRodriguez New Member

    There's nothing like the real thing.

    Let me give it a try ......

    Relating to the question, "Is Pekiti Tirsia pure?" If you do a comparative analysis with, say soft drinks, for
    example. Coca Cola brand has been around a long time, as well as Pepsi cola. It wasn't until the 50's and 60's that new soft drinks emerged, such as Sprite, Dr. Pepper and 7-up. Even today, you see companies with their own brands of Cola.

    Pekiti Tirsia and other FMA have been around a long time. It wasn't until the 70's and 80's that other mixed arts starting emerging. A lot of it was due to the legendary Bruce Lee's exposure on the big screen and his unorthodox way of fighting using grappling, boxing, Wing Chun and kung fu high kicks!

    So how does soft drinks relate to commercial martial arts. Well, there's advertisement (magazines), customers (students), and distributors/vendors (instructors). Some high executives (senior instructors) may have separated from the Coca Cola company and formed their own company, for whatever reasons.

    However, during the times I've spent with Grand Tuhon Gaje, I've never seen him drink a soft drink. We have drank a lot of coconut juice, not from a can, but directly from the young coconut fruit. You could say that Pekiti Tirsia is indigenous to the Philippines just as the coconut is. However, you can argue that coconuts also grow in Hawaii, Thailand, Indonesia and other tropical areas. It doesn't matter, though similar, the coconut juice I drank, grew from a Palm tree in the Philippines (a Visayan palm near the town of Bacolod, to be exact). There are other Coconut Palms, in other area in the Philippines, thus there are other Styles of FMA.

    In summary. Is Pekiti pure? It's as pure as saying that Coke and Pepsi are the oldest soft drinks in the U.S.
    Of course, Coke and Pepsi do have some history before and after it emerged. They eventually, spread to other countries and they TASTE slightly different!

    Of course, there is NOTHING LIKE THE REAL THING! Be it coke or young coconut juice.


  8. RRodriguez

    RRodriguez New Member

    Of course, these are the ones we need to stay away from.



  9. Wayuk-Oyaak

    Wayuk-Oyaak New Member

    I guess PTK is out of the loop for now, eh? Anyway, I hope you guys -and gals - see what PTK meant for us practitioners...

    Bring in more food, pleaseeee!
  10. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    Lolz, difference between FMA and other MA? All conversations eventually return to food, lolz!
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I've moved many of the food-related posts to their own thread here. Feel free to keep posting food pics!

    -FMAT Admin

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