Interesting question

Discussion in 'Dekiti Tirsia Siradas' started by Fewskivvie, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Fewskivvie

    Fewskivvie New Member

    In Filipino Martial Culture (Mark. V Wiley) there is a chapter on Binas Dynamic Arnis and an interview with their grandmaster Herminio Binas. Within the interview, Binas states that he taught Jerson Tortal (Sr.) Also interesting is the fact that I stumbled upon a document on the internet which focused on Vinas Lapu Lapu Kali/Arnis. The founder of which was Jose Vinas...Herminio Binas's cousin. He also stated that he taught Jerson Tortal and Leo Gaje as well. I believe all these men were from Bacolod City, Negros. Can anyone clarify this link between these grandmasters? Anymore information would be interesting. Thanks.
  2. medic

    medic Junior Member

    I went and looked up the article on FMA digest on Binas Dynamic Arnis and it states that there too also with a picture of GT Nene and GT Gaje. Considering that they are all from the Bacolod area I would not be surprised if there was some interaction whether it was teaching or cross training. GT Nene will be in the country in a few months and I will ask him, if you do not get a response from my senior Guro Duha Mike Snow in the mean time who keeps in touch with GT Nene on a regular basis.

  3. NAGA

    NAGA Member

    Hello everyone,
    GT Nene Tortal and Leo Gaje both trained with or more like exchanged technique with Jose Binas. Lapu-Lapu Kali is a very old and traditional visayan system that is Largo mano in application. According to oral tradition (from GT Nene Tortal) he taught Grandmaster Binas close range techinque and disarma. I infer what he got in return was a healthy heap of Largo-mano play. Also keep in mind both systems are blade orientated whereas Tortal Family is mid to close range with the prefered ability to range through Largo mano range and penetrate. This situation is similar too Angel Cabales and Tatang Ilustrisimo training together, everybody knows about it.

    thanks hope that helps!

  4. medic

    medic Junior Member

    Thanks for jumping John, very well said. Always nice to learn something new.
  5. GT Nene Tortal

    GT Nene Tortal -== Banned ==-

    Hello everyone,

    Mike called me earlier today and asked me to post here on FMA Talk concerning your question, he felt it would be best if I directly answer instead of him, and I agreed. Tiyo Herminio(Binas) is a distant cousin of mine on my mother, Barbara's side. So merely out of respect for an elder, I can say he was one of my teachers, that is just the way it is in old Ilonggo culture. Tiyo Herminio lived here in Talisay for almost a year while his wife was teaching school. While he was here, I invited him to join with my other Bastonero brothers of the Negros Occidental Arnis Federation. Tiyo Herminio also accompanied us to fight in Cebu a couple of times but we always urged him not to fight, we all felt he had fought enough during World War II and had to prove nothing to no one. Back then, we did not really wear pads at the competitions the way they do today. Even though we won more than 80% of the time, we did not boast, we all felt and still do that our Faith does not allow. But I can say this comfortably now since it was so long ago and knowing that no one will lose money to support their families at the ages we are at now, unlike back then when we were all struggling to survive. Very different than the way things are commercialized today. My Father, Balbino also trained together with Tiyo Hermnio in Talisay City, Ilo-ilo City and Manila. So there was always some contact with both branches of the family.

    I have always noticed that the big differences between my father's side in the arts and my mother's side(Palma Mana-largo & Binas Escrima) On my father's side, all the movements are similar in all ranges, with all weapons and even in pangamot, boxing and dumog. On my Mother's side, knife and pagamot are different than sword and baston. But that changed quite a bit with Tiyo Herninio's art while he trainined together with me and my other Bastonero brothers. I did also introduce Leo to Tiyo Herminio and he did take a few lessons from him. Unfortunately Leo had not much interest in Arnis at that time. he was obsessed with Karate, especially with Levy Sambrano's style, so he never belonged to the federation here. But Leo finally became interested in Filipino martial arts when he was about 22 years old when he was teaching Karate in Manila.

    As a matter of fact we even suggested to Tiyo Herminio that he call his are Lapu-lapu Arnis since he helped to liberate Filipinos from the occupation of the Japanese, the way Lapu-lapu fought against the Spanish. If that had any influence on the name of the system of Hose Vinas, I do not know.

    The bottom line is, we all learn from each other, not taking techniques from each other, but learning to apply them on different Maestros with different styles of Arnis. Regretfully, most of the Tuhons/Maestros/Professors from Negros and Cebu are gone now. So I urge everyone to go to the older teachers, not just my self to learn from them before it is too late. Not many of the younger instructors know how to move and apply like the older Maestros/Professors/Tuhons still do. Even if they cannot move like they use to, they can all still tech you the finer points that are being lost.

    Respectfully, Jerson Nene Tortal Sr.
  6. GT Nene Tortal

    GT Nene Tortal -== Banned ==-

    Also, my family treasure does not prefer any range, the entire reason to learn to manipulate you opponent from the inside first, then to manipulate them in Medio and then Largo, with multiple opponents, you might need to move around them or even move them or move between multiple opponents. Your range is your option, whatever is necessary for the situation, manipulating your range. With many opponents rushing you, you might need to push or throw one opponent into the others to survive. As soon as they move, you will know to use the option to go in or get out as you slash. By the same token, if they stay out, I cut them, if they want to come is, ok, I cut them. I always preach, you have the option to move in or out, to the side or up the middle.

    Jerson Nene Tortal Sr.
  7. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Great posts Grand Tuhon! Thanks from all of us!
  8. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

    Administrator Note:
    Due to some issues we have noticed, we have temporarily suspended GM Tortal's account while we attempt to verify that he is who he says he is. We have the utmost in respect for him and want to verify this is really him at which point we will restore his access. We apologize for the inconvenience. All verification should be addressed directly to Datu Hartman.

    Thank you
    FMAT Administration.

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