indian and persian club swinging

Discussion in 'The Den' started by nagaarm, May 1, 2012.

  1. nagaarm

    nagaarm New Member

    Hi all,

    I haven't been on in here for awhile, life happens, but I wanted to share with everyone one of the new things I've been up to. I recently came across indian and persian club swinging while researching different strength and flexibility home training options.In short I have fallen in love with this system, mainly because it gives me a great shoulder and upper body workout thats doesn't have some of the down sides that swinging the sticks does. I've also noticed it greatly helps to reverse the negative effects of the sedentary positions i find myself in for prolonged periods at work (tattooer). I mainly workout with the light clubs every day and add in the heavy meels on alternating days. Since I started, I've noticed a great increase in my shoulder strength and range of motion without the soreness I would usually have in my left elbow from arnis training. Im primarily working from routines and material I found in Simon Kehoe's book and a great book from the turn of the century by Tom Burrows, among others...

    I was wondering how many other FMA practitioners have added club swinging to their workout routine and any thought, comments, or experiences they may have concerning the practice. I know guys that actively study wrestling and the grappling arts may have known about this for some time considering the tradition this style of training comes from....

    thanks for your time,
  2. Navadisha

    Navadisha New Member

    I've used Clubbells for about 8yrs now. Fantastic for FMA strength. There are certain drills that will increase your grip strength exponentially in a short period of time. Any time I have any competition coming up I go right back to some of the exercises.
    What's unique about clubs vs standard free weights is that the swinging motions change the load on the body to be completely different in every range of the motion. the fact that the club has the majority of the weight at one end helps this if you do swinging motions.
    Take a look at some of the the DVD's that Scott Sonnon and have out. the clubs can be a little pricy but even the miniclubs are useful for FMA. he also has a certification program, my teacher still proctors some of them.
    If you look around, instructions are out for how to make your own. We regularly use up to 25lb ones and my teacher has some made with steel bar that totals around 85lbs.
    One important training tip that Scott stresses is to never let the club jerk on the joints, including the knees. Always be in control and let the bouce of the muscles support the joint when it is absorbed. Basic stuff in his program but very important to continued succes.
  3. nagaarm

    nagaarm New Member

    Thanks for the feedback Navadisha! I looked into Scott Sonnon's stuff and I instantly get a little skeptical when i see a program involving multiple dvd's, products, certifications, etc. I think I gravitated more towards the traditional club swings because I love archaic systems and have a natural affinity for wood. Im sure as my practice develops ill take a look again at some of Sonnon's material. Especially for single heavy club swinging. I also totally agree on the idea that the swing needs to be fluid and smooth. At the moment I'm using a 1-3 lb. set from Revolution Clubs and a pair of 10lb. Persian style meels from Atomic. Thanks for the feedback!
  4. Navadisha

    Navadisha New Member

    i can appreciate your skepticism, i'm pretty much the same way. And Scott's program has definitely headed in that direction in the past 5 years due to the people running his stuff. Something I have lamented as well. It has freed him up to travel and innovate more though.
    But, that does not take away from the validity of his material and the evolution he has developed.
    i just looked at the listing of DVD's and books, I would recommend pretty much all of them.
    I'm familiar with most of the material in each of them and they are all worth the $39.95. Especially the Intuflow and the introductory clubbells, both of which I have amoung others.
    I must point out, I have no relationship with Scott, in fact I'm a bit annoyed at him right now for minor reasons:coolorang , but that doesn't mean I won't recommend his training protocols. They're that valuable.
    I'd recommend perhaps browsing some of the vids he has on youtube, you can pickup quite alot just there. Check out his Tacfit alternative to Crossfit, great stuff. I do some of the rope stuff daily

    And I also understand your preference for traditional systems. My teacher is the same way especially regarding movement exercises, he learned clubs in India decades ago. But he still gravitated to Scott's system
    good luck! Sounds like you know what you're doing.
  5. odalisay

    odalisay Member

    I have researched this type of training many years ago but never got into it. Would like to take it up seems very interesting. Where is a good resource to purchase some Indian clubs or some meels.
  6. nagaarm

    nagaarm New Member

    i started with a pair of the 1lb. black plastic ones from motion rx that came with a dvd from dr. ed thomas. After a month of working out with them i switched a few things up in my basic outward swing/mill as per the way richard maguire does them on his ageless strength intro to light club video. i feel as if his version of this swing is better on my rotocuff and i get a way better forearm/general workout as well. At the moment i workout with a 1-3lb. wood set from revolution clubs, a 15lb. loadable gada/macebell from, and i am waiting on a pair of large meels from atomic strongman. i would definitely go with the ageless strength video and buy yourself a pair of 2lb. clubs. i think youll quickly "outgrow" the 1lb. clubs as i did so start with the 2lb. just my two cents. enjoy, they are addictive!
  7. jspeedy

    jspeedy Member

    Haven't tried clubbells yet but I've been training kettle bells for the passed 5 months.I did stronglifts 5x5 for about a year previously and before the kettlebell stuff I was doing a bodyweight routine. I read some of Pavel's kettlebell material and I find one of his students Athony Dilugio's (spelling?) work book the most helpful. Pavel tends to overwhelm me with information in all of his books, as a beginner I need to be told exactly what to do and when to add resistance.

    I like the range of motion and cardio aspect offered by kettle bell training. I assume clubbells offer similiar benefits but I also assume the lighter weighter offers more of a cardio/endurance benefit and less strength benefit but I don't really much about CBs. I'm also recovering from a serious patella fracture and subsequent surgery. I feel like the kettle bells have helped me build up my knee without overloading it. I still consider myself a newb to weightlifting and fitness although I've been into it's various incarnations for years (i'm 28 so take that with a grain of salt old guys). I found the strength training aspect offered by the stronglifts 5x5 program most rewarding. I'd never really worked my legs seriously before and was very happy with the benefits/gains of regular squats.

    I feel every martial artist should be doing some supplemental exercise, any art alone will only accomplish so much. In the end with a confrontation the most athletic person has the advantage. Skill and technique can overcome athleticism to a degree but even a mediocre skilled athletic person may be able to easily dominate a highly skilled weak person. Find a middle ground; train your art regularly and lift when you can.
  8. odalisay

    odalisay Member

    Thanks for the info mang! I have been doing more research but will take your suggestions into consideration. Those Persian meels look beastly! How many pounds are the ones you are getting & did you mean atomic athletic?
  9. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    I train with them weekly and enjoy them quite a bit in conjunction with kettlebells!
  10. nagaarm

    nagaarm New Member

    you can get a complete, fullbody strengthening workout with the heavier indian clubs by doing more of a british military style workout, or you can use the lighter clubs for more of a cardio workout. If you want serious strength training, the persian style meels will build unbelievable shoulder, back, and grip strength.
    im using 10lbs meels. i know guys that swing them up into the 60lbs range. btw it was atomic athletics.
  11. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I have been doing the Torqueblade program for a couple of years now, and feel comfortable saying that it probably translates most directly to FMA, among all "club swinging" types of exercise regimes. The founder Michael Holdsworth is himself a regular practitioner of FMA, and he modeled the equipment to suit the needs of FMA practitioners.

    At the moment he is trying a new marketing approach and targeted population, so his website may be a little confusing, but you will not go wrong with his program and training tools. Of course, the program can be done with any other kind of club but there are some definite advantages to using the designated equipment.
  12. blindside

    blindside student

    That is a very odd niche market to target advertising to.

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