How many styles?

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by fangjian, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    1 hahaha. Sorry I sounded rude.

    2 You used the words ' a system' instead of 'the system' which tells me there are more than one system. Is that the more appropriate term?

    3 Anyone know how CEM differs from Balintawak?
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    It's impressive (and encouraging, as a Modern Arnis player) that the art continues to thrive with no single, clear head.
     
  3. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hi Robert,

    That is what our historian was supposed to know and nobody disputed that claim. During the 1960’s and 1970’s, Mr. Velez was one of the most active propagator and promoter of the art. He accepted invitations to demonstrate an exhibition show in any gatherings of martial arts showdown including those one occasion attended by some foreign correspondents that made documentaries for the Filipino Martial Arts. People on that moment learned that Mr. Velez was the student to Atty. Villasin and he would always honored him as his teacher in many interviews set for him every after exhibition show, although Mr. Velez had also trained with Anciong Bacon regularly.

    Mr. Velez was the one who organized the Balintawak Arnis International in his house at Pari-an District, Cebu City before they move to Sikatuna St. Among the original students of Anciong Bacon only Atty. Villasin and his students joined the club because other students of Anciong established their own organization. Atty. Villasin was eventually elected as the President because he is a lawyer and he is the most qualified for the position. So it was presumed that Atty Villasin was the innovator of the grouping method of teaching but the truth is that it is Mr. Velez who did it first and he presented this new innovation to his teacher.

    Atty. Villasin adapted the new innovation and being the Cub’s President, he made it as the official teaching as some sort of honoring him and a reward being the innovator and organizer of the Balintawak Arnis club International. However, the honor was only credited to Atty. Villasin because he is the President and Mr. Velez was only his student. Mr. Velez being a very close friend and a very loyal student was just happy to give the honor to his mentor without mental reservation. But his students especially my teacher Teofilo V. Roma who actually knew the truth only recognized him alone as the innovator of the grouping method of teaching.

    Wilson
     
  4. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Robert,

    I see Wilson did an excellent job once again.

    Wilson,

    I was going to post that a couple of years ago those associated with the Velez Lineage posted that it was Mr. Velez who created the Grouping and shared it with Atty. Villasin. At that time no one contested the statement.

    That being said, I would like to just say thank you for sharing the knowledge you do have, with those of us here at this site.


    Thanks
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Yes, it's wonderful to have all this history here, where it's easily searchable!
     
  6. yomitche

    yomitche New Member

    Are there any video clips available, through Youtube, for example, that demonstrate the grouping systems that incorporate kicks/sweeps from different "families" of the art? I've seen some video of Nene Gaabucayan demonstrating sweeps and kicks in counter for counter, but the sections are unfortunately brief, and don't really give one the chance to dissect the motions.
     
  7. yomitche

    yomitche New Member

    Sorry, I posted the last comment before I was done...

    Anyway, the material with Nene Gaabucayan really good, but because it's demonstrated in the midst of "free-flow" counter for counter, I can't tell if it represents an entire group that addresses leg techniques.

    I understand that Nick Elizar's club may practice a group that addresses leg techniques also.

    Any ideas on this? Also, good to hear from you again, Robert!

    Thanks!
     
  8. Mono

    Mono Member

    You are right - Nick Teaches a seperate Group that is called "Familiarization of Kicking and Foot Sweeping/Tripping Application".

    The way this Group is beeing taught is somewhat different to the "Traditional" Groups 1-5 where you have a fixed / preset pattern on how when where to do which move, counter and recounter (before disecting the Group and working things on a conceptual base).
    Group seven has no real "preset Patterns" any more - you add the Kicking and Sweeping at will during Palakw. The techniques are either beeing added as "separate" Attacks (as you have seen on the Video with GM Gaabucayan) or simultaneously / preceeding another Attack. (for example: while advancing for a Strike you add a Sweep or a Kick to the knee to distract the Students/Opponents Upper defensive Game etc.)

    I ll check if I can find any examples for this on the Tube Videos. If I do, I ll post it...

    Greetings from Germany!
    Philipp
     
  9. Mono

    Mono Member

  10. yomitche

    yomitche New Member

    Very cool! Thanks a lot for posting this! I'd really like the chance to work on some of this some day - just to experience a different aspect of the art, if nothing else.

    Thanks again, Mono!
     
  11. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    I think more evidence is needed before essentially rewriting a watershed development in the history of Balintawak. Everything I've ever read and everyone I've ever talked to on the subject (until now) has said the same thing: the grouping method originated with Jose Villasin.

    Robert
     
  12. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hi Robert,

    My story is enough for me no more no less. Let the people believe or not to believe in me, thanks to those who can take them but I will have no problem to those who cannot take them. Anyway even if Mr. Velez is still alive today, he would still give that honor to his beloved teacher and I know the reason was only to appease him when he begrudge Atty. Villasin in defying his order to refrain from public showing of our Martial art for fear that it might be copied.

    Although Mr. Velez had a good reason and had explained it very well that the time has come for our Martial Art to be known into the entire world (because there were foreigners taking videos for documentaries of our Filipino Martial Arts). But Atty. Villasin who was just being loyal to Anciong and vowed to keep our Martial Art a secret and then here is Mr. Velez who was suppose to be his most favored student brought it out makes him furious and vowed not to speak with him forever.

    This made Mr. Velez worried, because he don’t mean to fight nor disrespect his teacher in fact he even share almost all his earnings in the exhibition shows and in every interviews he would always honored him as his good teacher of the art. Mr. Velez children were only very upset by their father’s action that he still remains loyal to his teacher despite of all insults he received. Eddie Velez was the one most affected and even challenged Atty. Villasin to a duel.

    John Villasin (Atty, Villasin’s son) entered into the picture in defense to his father and this is the starts of a word war between John Villasin and Eddie Velez. Mr. Velez move residence to Junquera St. to keep his family away from Atty. Villasin’s hoping to patch up differences later. Although it takes time but later on John and Eddie restored their friendship long ago now and the honor was still credited to Atty. Villasin until this very moment.

    But I will always tell my student that the innovator of the grouping method is no other than our great Grandmaster Teofilo Velez the teacher of our Grandmaster Teofilo V. Roma.

    Wilson
     
  13. manhattan1

    manhattan1 New Member

    I happen to agree with Robert about this.... :)
    Most i talked to down here also say that GGM. Atty. Jose Villasin did make the grouping method as Robert also says above....

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
    http://www.fma-arnis.dk
     
  14. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    No need to rewrite history. Maybe just an asterik or something.

    Back to the styles question.

    In 'boxing' there exist a few 'styles'. Like 'brawler, in-fighter,and out-fighter'. There are also different 'styles' of defense; 'peek-a-boo, low guard' etc.

    Is it kind of like the same thing with Balintawak? All of the 'styles' are consistently used interchangably depending on the situation? But of course some people are more comfortable with certain ones.
     
  15. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer New Member

    What you refer to in boxing are personal, stylistic preferences. The fundamentals remain the same. The stylistic preferences appear in the application of the fundamentals, i.e. techniques, combinations and tactics.

    The same thing is found in Balintawak. As has been discussed, what are often perceived as different styles or systems of Balintawak are really only stylistic preferences of the respective instructors.

    Robert
     

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