How many people train with canes?

Discussion in 'Misc. Stick Arts' started by Brock, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I don't mean how many of us are so crippled that we need them to walk! How many of you train with the walking cane as a weapon? Do you adapt what you already know from your style or study a style that teaches it i.e. Canemasters?
     
  2. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I use a tungkod while I train from time to time.. I have been doing this type of training since I was told that I have degenerating discs and arthritis developing in my lower back and shoulder region.. I use the tungkod when I travel, but don't carry anything like you see from the cane masters as some of their items scream weapon and draw unwanted attention by people who are naturally nosy when it comes to traveling and passengers on aircraft... I had some tungkod made out of kamagong and magahony when I was in the Philippines a few years back and still have a couple of them still in use.. Some of them were given as gifts to friends and acquaintances who were visiting and wanted to bash some sticks while on island..

    I always carry a tungkod in my truck also because I never can tell when I will be asked to train or teach some applications to introduce people into the systems I teach and train in..

    These canes are nothing out of the ordinary, just some engraved pieces of philippine hardwood which I had made to suit my needs with a little input by myself..
     
  3. pesilat

    pesilat Junior Member

    I have trained with canes from time to time - usually adapting what I've learned from FMA. I've had some exposure to systems that specialize in it like Canemasters. While what they teach is valid I've not seen any material presented in those that I didn't already have from my FMA training.

    Tangentially, there was something of interest I picked up watching one of the Canemaster instructors teach (it wasn't a technique but it was an interesting point I hadn't previously considered). He said, "Get a cane with a rubber tip. A) It's more functional as a cane and B) when you jab someone with the end that rubber tip tends to cause more friction and disrupt their structure more effectively than other types of tips - even if you graze them it's often enough to disrupt their structure. Other types of tips will often just slide off without really slowing the attacker down or disrupting him in any significant way." He phrased it differently but that was the gist I took from it and it does make a certain amount of sense.

    Mike
     
  4. Shonin

    Shonin New Member

    After years of being rode hard and put away wet my left knee is pretty trashed. It is fine while I am intently engaged in something else, training, cycling, and so those activities continue unabated, but it hurts a great deal while I am in neutral. Hence I always carry one when I am walking.

    I keep a couple of sturdy (from House of Canes) in my POV and have one very nice cane umbrella (also from House of Canes).

    When this began a few years ago I simply started using the cane to train the same sort of stick work that my escrima uses. It is at the point now where I almost always have a less-lethal weapon in my hand and, since they are quite sturdy (oak and diamondwood) I can use them precisely as I would a 32" olisi.

    I keep a second folder on my weak side and practice the espada y dagga with the cane and folder.

    I personally think the cane is a lovely weapon and, if you purchse wisely, does not raise eyebrows. It also tends to give one the patina of someone who is not a threat. Useful when the local constabulary comes sniffing around.

    Shonin
     
  5. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    I have a couple of canes around the house that I'll pick up from time to time. I've learned cane techniques from the following styles:

    Estacada-Weapons: Has it's own cane curriculum based upon the unique body-mechanics of this style. Uses single-hand, double-hand (baseball), and double-end techniques.

    Xing Yi Quan: Cane form from the North American Tang Shou Tao curriculum. Uses primarily double-hand and double-end techniques, as well as bayonet techniques.

    Pekiti Tirsia Kali: Does not have a "cane curriculum" per se - but the cane can be used very effectively using the "double force," double-hand, and bayonet grips taught in the Single Stick Abcedario, among other places. Pekiti Tirsia International also has a walking staff curriculum that can be adapted effectively for use with a heavy cane.

    San Miguel Eskrima: Does not have a "cane curriculum" per se - but the cane can be used effectively with largo range, power-based espada y daga techniques such as those found in the San Miguel Form.

    Although I don't travel anywhere with a cane I think it's useful to learn as it teaches you how to use a simple lever that's longer and heaver than a typical eskrima stick - but not as long as a walking stick or staff, etc.

    A useful trick if you're going to carry a cane is to cut the end of the crook on a "fish hook" angle as it's a force multiplier when you use it to gouge and hook.

    Best,

    Steve
     
  6. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    We do quite a bit of three foot cane work in IRT. From striking with them to locks and throws and both straight and curved ends. [​IMG]
     
  7. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

  8. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I see more people are training in Irish Stick fighting with the shillelagh. One of my students was telling me that a guy that I trained with back in the day, and has since moved out of the area is training in it. I just got a cane last week and have been applying what I know from Senkotiros to work with it. I've even done Gumon (counter for counter sparring) with it. The hook makes for some interesting disruptive techniques. Not that I ever expect to go stick vs stick with a cane, but it was interesting application.
     
  9. Shonin

    Shonin New Member

    To be a little more precise, I have a slew of canes, but they are all walking sticks from the House of Canes. I didn't want to deal with the curved end (precisely because it detracts from using the cane like a stick) so I went with walking sticks with small brass knobs on the end.

    I prefer them to the traditional cane shape. The one exception is the umbrella cane I have, which has a T-shaped handle.

    Probably more fiction that fact, but I loved the Once Upon a Time in China series with Jey Li playing Wang Fei Hung in which he always carried, and often fought with, a cane.

    One very famous picture of Gao I Sheng (Gao Ba Gua) shows him sitting and holding a cane.

    I think I also read somwhere that one of Dan Inosanto's mentors, John LaCoste) used to carry a cane.

    Getting all gussied up and going out for a nice dinner with a lady on one arm and a gentleman's walking stick in the other is, if I may, dapper indeed. (We will not mention the hidden knife and the Glock in the ankle hoster. -- And yes ma'm, I AM glad to see you!)

    Shonin
     
  10. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I'm finding that I like the hook. It allows me to do some off balancing techniques.
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Sometimes it's nice to have the hook, but I prefer the knob on my shillelagh. More often than not I'd rather take a swing than try an Eskrido-style lock, and I don't feel comfortable hitting with the curved hook end. I feel like I might get a glancing rather than square hit.
     

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  12. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I like to attack the legs with the hook end then catch behind the knee or the ankle and pull. It also does nasty things in the groin area...
     
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    But is it better than a strike with a knobby end of a hardwood cane? It's different, but I think I'd take the hit...though I know there are times when it's easier to sneak it in and yank than to get that strike in.

    The hook is a nice option but if I can only have one I'd take the knob. Remember you can do some hooking with it too; it just isn't a real catch but something that'll give a little friction.
     
  14. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

    I was told by my doc. that I am to young for knee replacements and would have to wait till I am 65yrs old, I'm 51. I use a cane only on my worst days. I also hold a 3rd Dan in Hapkido from Ki Whan Choi (died of cancer in late 80s), I learned cane techs. of Hapkido, which is pretty much like the techs. from Japanese styles (still they are cool and fun to do). I do not teach them as part of the Imua Tamaraw.
     
  15. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I think it's just a personal preference thing. I've got alot of body mass to put behind a hit, so as long as I connect with something it's usually damaging.
     
  16. MPC1257

    MPC1257 New Member

  17. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I knew the French had stick fighting based off of the rapier, but I just learned within the last year that there's an Itialian system as well. I've yet to find an instructor, but I'd like to study it! Kind of a heritage thing I guess.
     
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I know of La Canne...what's the Italian system?
     
  19. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    La Scherma di Bastone, I'm having a bit of trouble finding anything in English on it though.
     
  20. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Essentially, it is similar to la canne to a certain degree. The very name means stick fencing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008

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