heartless monkey anyone?

Discussion in 'Misc. Knife Arts' started by shootodog, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. shootodog

    shootodog New Member

  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I have heard very good things about the system but have no personal familiarity with it or the book!
     
  3. tellner

    tellner New Member

    It's good knife work. But you might want to hold off a bit. It's not clear who is filling orders now that Gartin is incarcerated. I'd recommend thinking twice before having too much to do with the man.
     
  4. pinoytenn07

    pinoytenn07 New Member

    I have always wondered the people and information about this system of silat. I have heard similar things that some people in their group are a bit shady. If this is off the topic please disregard this.
     
  5. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    What do you mean "shady?" I have seen some stuff by "Uncle" Bill de Thouars (only in video format, unfortunately) as well as some works of his students, namely Bob Orlando, and there was nothing really dubious there. Now, I'd like to know why did Gartin get there, but it might have nothing to do with his martial practices. while on the issue, even with him behind the bars, who's to say that the ordering business isn't functioning...
     
  6. pinoytenn07

    pinoytenn07 New Member

    Bill de Thouars and Bob Orlando are skilled players. It is Gartin that i have heard shady things about.
     
  7. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    Like what has been said before, it's good knife material... Bapak de Thouars has alot to offer. Mr. Gartin is not the most reliable source in many areas though.

    The majority of the time, at least in the past 5 years, Bapak de Thouars has really been conentrating on the knife play from a system of Pentjak Silat called Tjangkring FWIW. A mixture of Pamur and the personal experiences of his teacher in this art.

    Good stuff, but then again, I'm a bit biased :).

    -wes tasker
     
  8. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    I do understand that the pinoytenn07 was referring to Gartin and yet I do feel the need to let everyone know that shady is not something I would attribute to Bob Orlando. I personally know Bob Orlando and he does a seminar for us up here in the Great White North from time to time. Bob is a great guy and a fantastic technician and is definately not shaddy.

    In other words Bob Orlando is a great guy and if you get the chance to work out with him watch out because it is a great experience!!! [​IMG]

    Gartin on the other hand I personally do not know so I cannot help you out there at all.
     
  9. tellner

    tellner New Member

    Bill has had a lot of students over the years. By sheer probability there is going to be a couple of turkeys in the lot.
     
  10. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    That's a fairly accurate statement for all three brothers, not just Bapak Willem. I might even say the four brothers, but I don't know much about Pak Maurice's teaching history.

    -wes tasker
     
  11. pinoytenn07

    pinoytenn07 New Member

    I definitely respect Bob Orlando. From what i have seen through video he definitely knows how to teach and get things across.

    also as someone else said in this post there his always be a couple of "turkeys". Sometimes it is better to ask around to know who is who.
     
  12. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    OK, few days back I received Gartin's video produced and published by Paladin-Press, entitled "Secrets of Silat". It was supposed to "unveil" the secrets of blade use in silat and kuntao, especially the latter.
    So, I must say that Mr. Gartin is obviously very skilled and well versed in what he's doing, but I was not too happy about his presentation of the material. Namely, he showed how empty hand techniques translate to knife, but he did it mostly with quite obvious ones, where it does not take too much contemplation to figure out how it should be done. Also, I feel that in vide that limited in duration (60 mins), he could have done less repetitions on each, in order to offer more material. Towards the end, however, he did show some interesting drills and ways to practice it, and I must say I liked the atmosphere he and his assistants have betweeen them while working out. Another plus IMHO is the great scenery of Colorado mountains (I have always loved outdoors made videos).
    So, the bottom line is that if I had to grade this one I would go with 2.5-3 stars. Thaty said, I am not sure I would pay the reqired sum of money for the hartless monkey knife series they are offering through his web-site, if the level of instruction is the same as in tne Paladin video.
     
  13. Mas Judt

    Mas Judt New Member

    News to Me

    I have to take exception to the description of Steve Gartin as 'shady.' As someone who has read his ENTIRE case, the man is only guilty of pissing off some powerful people who have maliciously persecuted him, trying to find something that will stick. Fortunately, the system slowly works. Despite the lies on the net (He's never coming out, he's on the run, and far,far worse.) - he is free and living in New Mexico. He has had his civil rights trampled in a way that I couldn't believe happened in this country. Keep in mind, I am no high school drop out or some IT guy with time on his hands, this took a good deal of work to get through.

    He IS a colorful character, and certainly unusual in many ways, but shady? No. And Tellner, YOU should know better than to cast aspersions. You know what the Dutch Indo scene is like.

    Guru Gartin is one of the best I have ever seen. His tapes are good and available right now, but no, you won't find the advanced details on video. Guru Steve chose to walk away from his teacher for good, after years of being kicked in and out - but always recognized as Uncle Bill's top knife player.

    You can find more info at www.kuntaosilat.com
     
  14. tellner

    tellner New Member

    Reading his entire case I have to disagree. He didn't just tick people off, and Sol Glasser isn't that powerful, he showed complete contempt for the law, jumped bail, made threats and a bunch of other really stupid things. His attempts to game the system were amateurish, and a lot of his pronouncements just didn't hold water and seemed designed to turn the judge against him.

    It's a shame. I don't think he's actually dangerous to anyone. But he screwed up and kept compounding his mistakes. You can't do that and expect to walk away on the basis of your Christianity. And if there's a warrant on you and you run? That can't end well.

    Shady? Not really. Poor judgment and a hearty dose of believing his own line? I'm afraid so.
     
  15. Mas Judt

    Mas Judt New Member

    Read his whole case? I doubt it. If you had, you would know more than the stuff you are dropping here. Steve is the first to admit he f@cked up how he handled things when his troubles started. Many of your points however, are debatable (except he does hang hard on his religion, not my style, but I don't judge.) And yes, he won't back down, which has really pissed off a few judges.

    As a matter of record, Sol Glasser was not who I was talking about.

    You don't know the whole story, so I'd appreciate you not assume to know more than you do.
     
  16. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Sorry, just to bring us back to the original issue, could you please give us at least some general guidelines about what is on the video series. Heartless Monkey that is...
     
  17. tellner

    tellner New Member

    MJ, I stepped into the story quite a while ago and tried to keep up with his various websites. If I missed something there, ah well. Let's just say that he could have handled the whole thing with better tactics.

    Gagimilo, it's excellent material and well presented. Gartin has very good skills and presents them well. I have no idea who if anyone is handling order fulfillment these days.
     
  18. Mas Judt

    Mas Judt New Member

    T., it all gives a headache. Unfortunately things started from a 'not knowing a thing' basis, to his knowing so much, he drove those in the system nuts because he actually knew what his rights were to such an arcane level that you realize the problems with our education system include the law schools - bot to mention his heavy dose of his religion. But we all know people who carry interesting religious philosophies. Someday over a beer, I'll share my take on all this. (But it better be good beer.)

    Steve is really, really good - but all that indo-fusion behavior has hurt him, as well as his own troubles. BUT - he is a magnificent player, and actually, in person a really great guy. Too often martial artists are like hippies - willing to scam you for a few bucks. Steve on the other hand, is so generous he often gets taken advantage of.

    G. - If you go to www.kuntaosilat.com you will find more info on the tapes. Like most of Guru Gartin's tapes, they are a mash up of a lot of information, some explained, some not so much. I'd suggest giving one of them a try.

    Guru Steve is once again fulfilling his orders. He did have a student doing it, but hackers broke into his accounts, took over his identity and redirected orders - all while Guru Steve was being held for something he didn't do, on charges that weren't even accurate. (I.e. not showing in court, only his lawyer was required to, she did in fact do so.)

    But - he is managing it directly again.
     
  19. Mas Judt

    Mas Judt New Member

    T. - one more thing - it is *impossible* to keep up with it all on the web. The only reason I have gone through all these hoops is that I moved from extreme skeptic to active advocate for the man's case after going through literally thousands of pages. However it has started, he has been sucked into a system that is determined to convict of anything they can, if only they can make enough things up.
     

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