Discussion in 'Sikaran' started by SIKARANGLOBAL, Oct 24, 2005.

  1. Far Walkers Moon

    Far Walkers Moon New Member

    Let me get this stright.
    Are you saying that of all the islands and all the villages that only those in Baras, Rizal, Philippines know true sikaran? I find that hard to belive and even harder to belive that a Grandmaster could not have lived on another island or that kicking techniqus in sikaran could not have been passed down within different villages from generation to generation

    sorry but yours seems to be a verry prejudice view of sikaran from a perspective of building an empire for one instructor, Not saying he did not keep the name "Sikaran" alive in the islands of the Philippines or trying to take anything away from his organisation, just saying that for a person to say he is the only gm to come out of a country seems a little strong to me
  2. The Game

    The Game Pain

    I think you are pushing the idea that there is only one Sikaran line that is legit. I happen to disagree with that idea.
  3. Sheldon Bedell

    Sheldon Bedell New Member

    so do I disagree that only one line of sikaran is legit

    Farwalkersmoon said it nicely.
    Baras, Rizal, Philippines may be where the GAME of being inside the circle originated but I must agree that certainly if kicks where used on combat on other islands and villages then Sikaran existed
    I look at Sikaran much like looking at CMA to say that only Shaolin is truly the only legit CMA seems ridiculous as there was obviously martial arts in existence if there where armies at the time and many more styles have come into being after
  4. willcordero

    willcordero New Member

    If you say that your sikaran is legitimate, you should use tagalog words intead of Japanese. Your sikaran is just passed on and used Japanese forms (kata) and terms. If your SIKARAN is a filipino art, then don't use Japanese terms. Therefore, yours is Japanese art form.
  5. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Mabuhay Mr. Cordero, and thanks for contributing your posts to the discussion, especially your experiences with Mr. Banaag.

    I've been following the discussion, but I missed to see who was using Japanese technology in their discussion of Sikaran. Do you mind if I ask you to clarify who your comment is directed towards?

    I hope I'm not missing something really obvious :D Thanks!
  6. Sheldon Bedell

    Sheldon Bedell New Member

    I'll clarify it before he dose, I use terms from many countries when I post.

    I used terms like kata, sifu, grandmaster, sensei, hand, and butt of stick and I count in at last 5 in class because these terms are better known to most Americans than those terms that might be said in tagalog.
    could be I have training in styles that use such terms also or that my instructor and the head of the system said it was ok to speak American and to use terms that Americans would understand
    I do no injustice to the techniques by calling them what ever I choose as long as the technique is correct If I had been taught in the islands I would use the terms that where needed there for people to understand or if I taught in Poland I would want to use terms that the people thee could understand
    Being able to speak tagalog is in no way an indication that a person can do Sikaran or any other art
  7. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    I can understand. You'll need to teach me in the language you are teaching in Sheldon because my Pilipino is non-existant, unfortunately.

    EDIT: I'm sorry Sheldon I didn't mean to set you up for failure. I ask lot of wondering question...perhaps a few too many sometimes ;)
  8. Sheldon Bedell

    Sheldon Bedell New Member

    That is what forums are for. The asking of questions and getting answers.
    People may not always like the answers but that happens at times.

    Hari OSIAS C. BANAAG had mentioned to me a while back that a Sikaran tournament might be coming up I wonder if any more information is available about it
  9. Far Walkers Moon

    Far Walkers Moon New Member

    if what willcordero has said is correct then i guess that
    Dan Inosanto has no clue what he is talking about because the kicks mentioned in The 55 Kicks of Sikaran? seem to be from Mr. Inosantos teachings
    I just happen to think Mr. Inosanto dose have a clue and must have listed the names of the kisks the way he did for a reason
  10. willcordero

    willcordero New Member

    Ok... karate is using the japanese language for their stances and forms.

    After being awarded Red Belt and recognizing the art of Sikaran is distinct, GM Meliton Geronimo used tagalog terms because first of all Sikaran is a filipino art. Like all arts, grandmasters created their own language and definition or let say it that they outlined from step 1 to step 10. GM Geronimo helped us the Filipinos to understand the art of Sikaran not just only by kicks but the language as well.

    For example:
    pugay means to bow, to give respect to higher authority
    tayong likas means the natural stance
    tayong kaagapay means the parallel stance

    those are the few examples...
  11. BushidoFMA

    BushidoFMA New Member

    I think there were many sikaran kings during the time when sikaran wasnt yet "popular" and maybe FRANCISCO TORRES was one of them.

    The point here is that GM Hari Banaag didnt make himself or proclaimed himself as a GM but someone older and a respected sikaranista gave it to him.

    here is an illustration to help us broaden our minds...

    (founder/founders of sikaran-before the spaniards came)-------passed on------>(GM/GMs-during the spanish occupation)-------passed on-------->(SIKARAN KINGS-the batch where FRANCISCO TORRES belong)---------passed on------>(different advance students of sikaran-Geronimo may belong to this section)-----passed on----->( one of the sikaran kings proclaimed Hari banaag)

    Gm Geronimo was given the redbelt title by karatekas(correct me if im wrong)

    Gm Banaag got his proclamatiom from Francisco Torres.
  12. Bagwis

    Bagwis New Member

    me either dont know the guy

    hi bro, i grew up in sikaran and trained instructor whom been trained by master geronimo. i never heared that name in my entire training days, all i knew is when Mr. Banaag who used to be a sikaran national capital region director been expelled to the sikaran brotherhood, he did a so called research and found this guy in baras rizal, whom my master (Geronimo) confronted why he became a hari, the old guy doest even know any sikaran original command, dont know any form, whereas, way back then, i saw my master father a 90 yr old who can still form, posture a kick and explain details of his fights and how he gain the title hari. I am asuming that Mr. banaag and in his love so much of the art, that i even see him as a personal body guard of master geronimo whenever, we attend national sikaran champinoship from visayan island to mindanao, he carries personal belonging of my master, he have great leadership and talent that contribute a lot to sikaran specially in manila, but look down at most sikaran seniors which is higher rank than him being 6th degree at that time..and when he is no longer a sikaran i gues out of frustrations and of all the things and plans for the art he sees uportunity to find someone who can bring him to his claims as hari. with due respect he is a nice guy but i dont think he can go back home and proclaim his being hari there.
  13. Bagwis

    Bagwis New Member

    who is impostor?

    with due respect, we knows who is claiming and who is ligit...
  14. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I don't think anyone has the full history!
  15. Bagwis

    Bagwis New Member

    One Thing I Can Say Is That Its A Total Arranged Thing For Someone To Claim Something....
  16. mjgeronimoIII

    mjgeronimoIII New Member

    Osias Banaag was a student of Meliton C. Geronimo Sr.
    Osias got his 1st degree Black from WSABP in 1975.
    2nd degree 1976.
    3rd degree 1978.
    4th degree 1984.
    5th degree 1985.
    6th degree 1991.
    I read the Black Belt list. Osias was also Meliton C. Geronimo's Secretary at one point. He was expelled from WSABP on 03/01/1994 for stealing documents.

    There is also a Francisco Torres on the Black Belt list. He reached 1st Degree Black. I'm not sure how someone can pass down Hari status. I guess if you pay them enough.

    Baras is a pretty small town, I doubt that anyone considered a Hari of Sikaran would be unknown to everyone, especially the Sikaran practicioners.

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