Discussion in 'Dog Brothers Martial Arts' started by Crafty Dog, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Woof All:

    I trust that many of us are familiar with the Gurkhas and their kukris.

    I must say this Gurkha's logic makes sense to me.

    Gurkha ordered back to UK after beheading dead Taliban fighter

    By Christopher Leake
    Last updated at 11:26 AM on 18th July 2010

    A Gurkha soldier has been flown back to the UK after hacking the head off a dead Taliban commander with his ceremonial knife to prove the dead man’s identity.

    The private, from 1st Battalion, Royal Gurkha Rifles, was involved in a fierce firefight with insurgents in the Babaji area of central Helmand Province when the incident took place earlier this month.

    His unit had been told that they were seeking a ‘high value target,’ a Taliban commander, and that they must prove they had killed the right man. The Gurkhas had intended to remove the Taliban leader’s body from the battlefield for identification purposes but they came under heavy fire as their tried to do so. Military sources said that in the heat of battle, the Gurkha took out his curved kukri knife and beheaded the dead insurgent.

    He is understood to have removed the man’s head from the area, leaving the rest of his body on the battlefield. This is considered a gross insult to the Muslims of Afghanistan, who bury the entire body of their dead even if parts have to be retrieved. British soldiers often return missing body parts once a battle has ended so the dead can be buried in one piece.

    A source said: ‘Removing the head in this way was totally inappropriate.’

    Army sources said that the soldier, who is in his early 20s, initially told investigators that he unsheathed his kukri – the symbolic weapon of the Gurkhas – after running out of ammunition but later the Taliban fighter was mutilated so his identity could be verified through DNA tests.

    The source said: ‘The soldier has been removed from duty and flown home. There is no sense of glory involved here, more a sense of shame. He should not have done what he did.’

    The incident, which is being investigated by senior commanders, is hugely embarrassing to the British Army, which is trying to build bridges with local Afghan communities who have spent decades under *Taliban rule.

    It comes just days after a rogue Afghan soldier murdered three British troops from the same Gurkha regiment.

    If the Gurkha being investigated by the Army is found guilty of beheading the dead enemy soldier, he will have contravened the Geneva Conventions which dictate the rules of war. Soldiers are banned from demeaning their enemies. The Gurkha now faces disciplinary action and a possible court martial. If found guilty, he could be jailed. He is now confined to barracks at the Shorncliffe garrison, near Folkestone, Kent.

    The incident happened as the Gurkha troop was advancing towards a hostile area before engaging the enemy in battle.

    Colonel Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said: ‘In this case, it appears that the *soldier was not acting maliciously, but his actions were clearly ill-judged. The Gurkhas are a very fine regiment with a proud tradition of service in the British forces and have fought very bravely in Afghanistan. I have no doubt that this behaviour would be as strongly condemned by the other members of that regiment, as it would by all soldiers in the British forces.’

    A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: ‘We are aware of an incident and have informed the Afghan authorities. An investigation is underway and it would not be appropriate to comment further until this is concluded.’

    The Ministry also revealed yesterday that four British servicemen had been killed in Afghanistan in 24 hours. An airman from the RAF Regiment died in a road accident near Camp Bastion in Helmand and a marine from 40 Commando Royal Marines was killed in an explosion in Sangin on Friday. A Royal Dragoon Guard died in a blast in the Nahr-e Saraj district of Helmand Province yesterday. The fourth serviceman also died in an explosion. The British death toll in the Afghan campaign since 2001 is now 322.

    Afghan troops trained by the British Army recently led a major operation into a Taliban stronghold. It was one of the first operations organised by the Afghan National Army.

    Regiment’s proud symbol of valour

    The iconic kukri knife used by the Gurkhas can be a weapon or a tool. It is the traditional utility knife of the Nepalese people, but is mainly known as a symbolic weapon for Gurkha regiments all over the world. The kukri signifies courage and valour on the battlefield and is sometimes worn by bridegrooms during their wedding ceremony. The kukri’s heavy blade enables the user to inflict deep wounds and to cut muscle and bone with one stroke. It can also be used in stealth operations to slash an enemy’s throat, killing him instantly and silently.
  2. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Interesting this is what happens when you try to wage war while following your opponents rules and or a code of conduct that does not always mesh with what is happening on the battlefield!
  3. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    You know that the Geneva Convention is recognized by a hand full of nations.. If our rules of engagement were a little more defined by field officers instead of Putzes who never have had boots on the ground in a conflict, we might be able to do what our military guys are trained to do.. Guerrilla war fare demands small unit operations instead of having battallions sitting in fixed posts and lobbing shells outside of the sight of view.. In the past, we had Project Phoenix which was run by SOG and it had a serious effect on the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong of the past conflict.. Personally, I think they should reactivate this type of Black Ops and say the hell with being politically correct.. The Taliban and Al Qaeda don't play by the rules of the Geneva Convention, so I say the hell with it and go biblical on them.. An eye for an eye or in this case, a head for an @sshole terrorist..

    But this is coming from an old war horse
  4. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    You will never win a war when you force your soliders to fight with one hand tied around their balls. It seems the Gurkha has been thrown under the tank by the very government he works for. It amazes me how western sentiment turns this guy over as a creaton, a killer, a mutilator with nary a word about what the Taliban douche bags do to our soldiers, Gurkhas included if captured or killed. Somehow the sensibility of this heathen takes precedence over gettign the job done, the job he was sent to do. No wonder we are still there. I say set loose the dogs of war and let them finish it. No more candy ass concern for the rights of these *******s . . and in a combat zone if he isn't on your side he is an ******* and a target. Now I am sure some will say "But the villagers, it offended them" . . YADDA YADDA , Get over it! If you want these scum belly Taliban gone you can't miracle them away, you have to kill each and every one of them, and killing is nasty. If the villagers are so offended then perhaps they should do their own dirty work, maybe they can rukat these vermon into a shallow grave. Yeah right! Hypocritical douche bags!
  5. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    ...and followed by none!

    After all, I would really like to see the army that actually teaches those rules to its soldiers, or makes the convention in question a mandatory reading for its troops. I remember once reading memoirs of a Russian colonel who fled to the West, and he once asked a fellow western officer how come all the ambulance vehicles are marked with such big and visible red crosses, because in the Red Army it was it was a prime target. When asked something like "But how about Geneva Convention?", he had absolutely no idea what it was.

    I gotta agree with Mike (again)'s armies are institutions that treat the very solders that make them as expandable material and scape goats.
  6. geezer

    geezer Member

    Well, not just today's armies. Bad commanders have always used their troops badly. But really, what are we? Savages? We cannot stoop to the enemy's level and participate in mutilating the dead. Since the dawn of time that "mutilation" crap has gone on, and it never wins the hearts and minds of the population. And that's the BS of this war. We are in their country, so not only do we have to win tactically on the battlefield. We have to win over the non-combatants. Yeah it sounds like BS. And, maybe it can't be done. But that's what we've got to do, ...or else get the hell out.

    So, IMHO the Gurkha soldier should apologize and give back the head. He should be given a camera and told that if he's ever in that situation again to take a picture. Besides cameras are a lot easier to carry around than severed heads. Oh, and then they should definitely thank him for his bravery. That should make everyone happy, right?
  7. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Spoken like an individual who never has had boots on the ground in a combat environment (I'm Assuming).. There are some real good field commanders who actually look out for their troops.. But when you get people who sit in the comfort of their arm chairs in their air conditioned offices some 15K miles away from the conflict and making decisions that impact the mission capability of the troops, it shows.. The mentality of the big army concept is what kept the US from taking care of the situation in our conflicts of recent.. Look at the Charlie Foxtrot that happened with the lack of direct control in Somalia and now the British Troops in particulary the Gurkhas are being thrown under the bus for the world's public opinion..

    I say screw this and let the troops do like they are allegedly trained to do.. The Geneva Convention needs to be reevaluated and then maybe we can get even footing on the battle field with out the political @ssholes second guessing the field commanders and letting them do what they are paid to do.. Go to exotic places, meet interesting people and kill them if necessary..

    Nuff Said
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  8. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    This Gurkha did what he was taught to do. His kind have been doing this since they began the regiments. He didn't take the head as a souvenir, he took it for identification purposes. Everyone is so damn enamored with the rights of the people . . LOL..thats laughable. These are the same people who take up arms at night but plow their fields during the day. I guess Vietnam taught no one a lesson. In a combat zone everyone is considered the enemy...everyone! Winning hearts and minds is the biggest crock of **** to date. No country that has ever been taken over gives two ***** whether there hearts or minds are considered. They just want everyone gone until such a time as they need us once again, to do their work. So I agree, level the Goddamn place and bring the boys home.
  9. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Or to paraphrase our old civic actions teams motto

    Grab them by the balls and the hearts will follow
  10. geezer

    geezer Member

    I like that. It kind of reminds me of the old wrestling axiom, "Where the head goes, the body follows." ...except that didn't happen in this case! LOL

    Just for the record, Bill, always assume that a good part of what I post is written with "tongue firmly planted in cheek". My true sympathies are definitely with the soldier.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    If you're going to send men into war, some heads are gonna be lost. I see that it's a PR issue but handle it locally and ask him next time to try not to desecrate the dead, but I don't see this as a big deal. It wasn't an attempt to be disrespectful.
  12. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    No, it wasn't. Since when do soliders need to worry about the respect factor when it comes to killing scum bag terrorists, murderers , rapists, thieves and cut throats. That's what the Taliban is and more. Some said it went against the ethos of Islam that this happened. This individual gave up all rights and respect by doing the deeds he has freely chose . . he is no Muslim . . he is a piece of **** vermin that deserved what he got. They should cut the heads off of every one of those jack wagons they kill ... parade their heads on sticks with signs below that read :

  13. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Nope - it was a specific action done under pressure for a specific reason. The soldier should be commended for not losing his head.


  14. Pau

    Pau New Member

    Soooooo they can behead People in live tv and its conisdere the Gratest honor But when its don to them its bad politics hahahaah i just dont understand
  15. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    I think the soldier deserves a medal, perhaps after a dog and pony show for Afghani public consumption.

    IIRC Homer's Iliad concludes not as the Brad Pitt movie does with the sacking of Troy; rather it concludes with King Priam sneaking into the Greek camp to beg of Achilles the return of his son Hector's battered and mutilated belly. Achilles is moved and grants Priam's request , , , and weeps.

    What is Homer trying to tell us?
  16. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    A close parsing of the current news re. Afghanistan might emit the following scenario:

    1. We will not be in Afghanistan forever. Hopefully not: See 5 below.
    2. The Karzai regeme, no matter how corrupt, is a player in the near foreseeable future
    3. A resolution to the Afghan conflict, which might involve a partitioning of the region, will involve negotiations with the Taliban.
    4. S**t happens, nothing's guaranteed, the best laid plans, etc.
    5. Our focus will remain on: Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, North Korea...

    Just my 2 centavos...


  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I remember the outrage when bodies of dead American soldiers were dragged through the streets in Somalia (the "Black Hawk Down" incident). I understand not wanting to look hypocritical on an issue like that. But since there was a clear request to identify a specific target, and it's not as though all enemy casualties are being beheaded as trophies, it just doesn't seem comparable to me.
  18. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I am often considered to be an old brown shoe airforce NCO.. I speak how I feel and sometimes my intent in focusing my tirade comes out the wrong way. The assumption is always on my part because after 21 yrs in the military and now working with the military again.. I have a son who is going into his 11th year of being in the military and I just found out that his next deployment is to asscrackistan.. I hope that the outer ring of security for the base he is going to be at has the Gurkhas as part of the coalition crew in his AO.. The base he is going to is the same base that the Taliban hit earlier this summer and he is redeploying with his old unit from Germany..

    He has a couple of extra pieces of equipment to put in his bug out bag and one will be that he can wear under his uniform shirt.. My own specificiations, but made by a new bladesmith that I have had 3 blades from so far.. Two have been carried by me on various occasions and my next design will be user specific for training in the DTS system..
  19. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

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