Freeing your knife hand

Discussion in 'Misc. Knife Arts' started by JPR, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. JPR

    JPR New Member

    Assume for a moment that you and your opponent are armed and have ended up in a stalemate grip (your off hand has grabbed his knife hand at the wrist, and he has done the same to you). How do you free your knife hand, while keeping his out of play?

    Also address two other variables, 1) he is roughly your same strength and 2) he is much stronger than you.

  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Ideally, I'd like to be able to use his own knife, which I am controlling, to cut his other forearm. Especially if he has a strength advantage on me, I may need to use a 'trick' like pulling his arm in one direction to get an opposing reaction from him so I can go in the other direction, or pressing forward with both arms so he reacts by pushing back and I can then jerk him forward and make the cut.

    Riskier moves include a head-butt, which might move me too near his knife, or letting go of his knife arm in order to pop his hand off of my knife arm. I would be reluctant to do the latter, but if I thought I was losing my grip anyway I might do it.

    I would definitely be using lots of small motions to set him up, much like wrestlers clinching. Pull down on the arm to get his weight on the corresponding foot, etc.

    I practice this a fair amount stick-to-stick, but less often knife-to-knife. I do practice it though, as I feel it is a situation that can easily arise.
  3. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    If I getting this pictured correctly in my head, then both the opponent and myself have knives, both grabing one anothers knife-hand wrist (assuming were both holding our knives in our right hand) and were at a 'stand-still'
    Possibly my first option may be to roll my knife hand out of his grasp with a 'wrist thrown' type movement. Meaning that I would attempt to make a circular motion with my knife hand against the weakest point of his grip, which would be the thumb. Since the weakest part of anyone's grip is the thumb, that would be my first choice. Regardless if he's stronger than I am, the thumb will always give way, even if he's got some monster-vice-grip like strength. Granted, it will be much harder to execute such a move with someone who has a very strong grip, but I'm of the opinion that the thumb will give way. Its similiar in movement to doing a reverse wrist throw.
    Another option may be to intially give a quick kick to the shins. Granted its not very pretty or impressive, but it will definetly make them think for a fraction of a second while you execute your follow-up move. Also a 'shin-scrap' kick with the instep of the foot is exceptionally painfull, and if you really what to do some damage, while your following down the front of the shin with your foot, just follow it down to the top of the foot and drive your heel it the top of his metatarsel (top part of foot) and if you luck enough, you might break the arch of the foot. But hey thats an added bonus.
    Or perhaps just a simple forward kick (leading with the heel of the foot or the ball of the foot) to the abdominal region, lower belly (right in the bladder! OHH!) or just a straight groin shot! (now if that doesn't drop a guy, then man, I don't know what does!) A strong kick to the gut is bad enough to make you want to hurl!!

    These are only a fraction of the things that one might do, and I'm sure that we all have our own 'sugar & spice' that we would add to the situation depending on a variety of factors (i.e. night-environment, unstable or slippery ground, enclosed areas w/ minimal space to work with, multiple opponents, prior injuries already inflicted, bystanders, witnesses, etc...) Any other thoughts on possible response or actions that may be viable to a situation such as this?

  4. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    I work on the specific scenario. I have about 8 different options that I teach. The one I use the most is the neck fulcrum.
    1. I push the opponent’s knife hand back as far as possible.
    2. I swing my knife hand out and up to my opponent’s head level.
    3. I duck my under the opponent’s arm while giving him a shoulder bump.
    4. Bracing his elbow on the back of my neck I perform a downward hammering motion with my knife hand to break my opponent’s grip.
    5. Now that my knife is free I can perform a variety of counters.
    I will try to post a video in the next couple days.
  5. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    Hey Tim,

    If I am picturing you correctly, the late PG Edgar Sulite taught that move quite often.

    Here is one I like:

    While explosively dragging the opponents arm in to off balance a lil’, I would side step simultaneously toward the opponent throwing the elbow of my weapon hand into the opponents elbow (old school jujitsu/hapkido method) to break the hold. Obviously, throwing the shoulder in for added leverage and shock affect is beneficial. Once released, simply come back with a butt to the face or slash across the eyes.

  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Do you mean that your elbow is rolling up and over his elbow/forearm to get a lock-like position, or do you mean this as a strike to bump it off in one stroke?
  7. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    No. It is like Remy's walk away. I lift my knife hand up and duck my head under the opponent's arm. I then lift my head up on the back side of his arm. His position would be like a front choke. If he goes for the choke he has to let go of my weapon hand.
  8. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    No roll over...

    Much like what was presented in another post, by bringing your elbow towards your opponents elbow you are in essence ripping out your wrist at the weakest point towards his thumb. I might add a slight clockwise movement to better position against the opening between his fingertips and palm. You should end up with forearms parallel to each other. This was a basic movement taught against a wrist grab which to me was easier and more effective than turning the wrist counter clockwise especially against a firm grip. I added the side/entry step to provide more leverage, torque and explosiveness.

  9. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    That's the one, I like his entire series for that position!
  10. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    There will always be similarities or techniques identical. I believe this is the same thing I am referring to.

  11. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Hmmm, I thought yours took you outside the arm, where his takes you inside and under it? The walk-away looks like a wrestling technique.

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