Forum Description.

Discussion in 'Dekiti Tirsia Siradas' started by arnisador, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I think so! I'll put it in like this:

    Dekiti-Tirsia Siradas is a blade oriented system heavily emphasizing footwork, enabling the practitioner to rapidly close the distance and finish the opponent(s). This system has three basic strategies: attack, counter attack, and counter the counter. These are present in all techniques of the system: empty hand, impact and bladed weapons, firearm retention, empty hand vs. weaponry, and dumog.
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    It looks OK to me! It's about the right size. I still find the JKD-Kali and LSAI descriptions a bit long. It should be just enough to pull people into the forum to read more!
     
  3. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Looks good to me, thanks........ Let's go for it. Have a great trip!
     
  4. kaliace

    kaliace New Member


    Sorry about the late reply, but lets get started.

    I will not be able to make the “Gathering” out in Indianan. I have already broken a promise to be at Master Style’s seminar in KC. I would like to again apologize publicly to Master Style for that as I know he reads these forums.

    It is good to hear a couple of my former students will be able to make that trip.

    As for the general dog pile I have seem to cause with this thread, well to bad. You can all cite times when Grand Master has thrown us threw the air or tied us up on the ground. Some can even talk about working with firearms, in the realm of some effective disarms. As for the fact the Mr. Snow has pointed out that I have not been taught the “ground fighting” by Grand Master, yep that is true. That does that mean I do not believe it exists. I simply stated that it should not be called grappling, because it is not. I don’t know firearm retention either, and have never claimed to know it. How many of us DTS gurus know it either? I could think of a couple, but that is only because they are in Law Enforcement or the Military. Someone like me who does not carry a gun every day for their job or survival in the battle field should not claim to know or teach firearm retention. It really is that simple.

    This is it for me really, I will let you all jump all over my Outrageous statements. At least you know who I am.

    Michael Olive

     
  5. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Hi Mike,

    No one was intentionally jumping on you man. And everyone knows how great your knife skills are. GM has actually told be quite a few time how you and David are naturals at it.

    We all found out about the grapppling and ground fighting by accident. I started doing extremely low Silat enries with sword/ dagger. GM would drop and stick me every time(Harrada). Then about three years ago, we were goofing around on the mats doing a little wrestling and Shuai-Chiao. GM stepped out into the garage, set his lunch down as fast as he could and jumped right in,"No, like this. like this." That's how I stumbled across the grappling aspect of the system. You are correct however. The intention of GM's grappling techniques are not to get someone to submit of the ground. That's just to dangerours to your self. It's to get back up on your feet so that the other guys does not stab you. That's where the grappling comes in, it's a great way to work on reversals to holds and throws.

    Well anyway Mike, we wouls all love to see ya and GM will be here in Terre Haute a lot this year. I can ever run GM out there to you between semniars.

    God Bless, Mike
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Heh, I could tell so many stories about Prof. Presas from Modern Arnis..."He showed you what? But he never showed it to me. Is it really part of the art or just something he knows?" I've heard lengthy orthodoxy arguments about what is and isn't Modern Arnis vs. part of the Prof.'s repertoire. I don't know what to say!
     
  7. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Actually I think it'sreally cool that everyone learns something different or a little extra of this or that, on top of our structured curriculum. That's why I think it's really important for DTS instructors, practitioners and groups to train with each other and share techniques and concepts whem GT Nene is not here.

    Everyone has their favorite aspects of the system too. Mine are the Dumog, Panggamut and Harada. I love the sumission grappling part of the Dumog a lot. Getting out of the holds to get back on my feet I think is reall important on the street. Along with reversals to throws and takedowns.

    John is really awesome with the baston, sword and Harada(knife), you're really awesome with the Dumog, baston and knife. Everyone has that little extra from what they have been sown and what they favor.

    If it were not for you and Keith Wetoskey, I probably would know even less about the Dumog. It was around you guys tghat GT Nene really strated showing it. If it were not for Pendakar Style and John, I probably would not know as much about the Harada. Each person GT does around he pulls a different species of rabbit out of his hat. How closely related all these techniques are to each other just blows my mind. Thesame motions us use to defend against a knife standing up may be used against a puch while you are on your back. The same footwork you use for a Contrada might be used to reverse a throw.

    I was discussing with Pendakar a couple of weeksago how many uses the are just for 1 & 2 and how those two lines of attack can be used against countless numbers of on coming attacts. I remember whem I met him in VA about ten years ago by accident. He siad, "let me show you how many things I can do with just your 1 & 2." Then he spent a good hour whooping everyone's @$$ with different techniques using 1 & 2, even empy handed. Then pointed out to me how great this system really was becuase of it's simplicity. "Just flow, it's all the same."

    There's a lot of stuff that we still don't know.............
     
  8. silat1

    silat1 Active Member



    That one reason to get as much information from the source as possible.. There are a lot of fma systems that died on the vine because of the lack of contact between the senior people and the newer generation of students.. That is what I found out by talking to senior filipino students of Master Reston over the years.. I found out that as he got older, the training changes or evolved to allow him to keep slamming and jamming with the newer generation student, but he kept bouncing them off of the walls just like GT Nene did with John when he came to chicago in 06.. It was dejavu for me to see that happen again, especially with the newer generation of students who are partaking of the martial culture of the Philippines for the first time. It is well worth experiencing and it will give you a perspective from the historical aspects of the FMA to see the Manongs from the home country who still practice their family art and passing it along to the new generation of practitioners of the world.

    I am glad that I was fortunate to touch hands and stick with GT Nene and as a second generation instructor of the FMA who trained in exclusively in the Philippines, the training with GT Nene was like stepping back in time and experiencing the training that I had in the 70's when I was a young pup in the FMA.

    Mabuhay Dekiti Tirsia Siradas
     
  9. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    How right you are Bill................

    Sharing what we have leaned and learning from each other is only going to benfit all of us. John and I swapped a few Dekiti knife techniques last time I was up there. I helped John with empy hand vs. knife and John helped me out with knife vs. knife.

    There are so many techniques it is mind boggling. So I just ingrain the concepts and the techniques just come out. But there are always things I have questions about. Thinking about the similarities between the techniques is what helps me retain so many. It still amazes me how even the grappling techniques come from the Contradas and blade techniques.

    Last time we were up at Guro Keith's place Guro Lisa asked a question about how to escaped the guard position when someone's trying to kill you with a knife in Pakal. GT instructed her to use the hand techniques from the Palipas Contrada, while bridging on her left side, turning her feet to the right, rolling to her right and stepping around with her left foot. While disarming the knife on GT's left leg, grabbing the knife and counter attacking. GT pointed out that the footwork still came into play while she was one her back. It looked like a Palipas Contrada on a different axis. Still astounded about that particular technique. We went over quite a few ground fighting techniques then worked empty hand on the guard, mount and half mount techniques. When the Arisador was here we were going through a few similar techniques and GT comapered a couple of the technqies to "chopping wood", he later explained that was how that particular techniques was taught to him as a child.

    God Bless, Mike
     
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    OK, you must show me that defense next time!
     
  11. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Better yet Arnisador, GT will be here in less than a month. You can watch him torture me like he always does...........
     
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Save me a seat! Actually I may be confined to bed for a bit still at that point...
     
  13. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Been there, done that a few times........ I am just thankful you will be back doing what you love to do in a few. GT will be here off and on for six months. So you will have plenty of chances to watch me be tortured. I think I am going to host a small private GT Tortal / DTS Dumog seminar in late Octobar in your honor. It's the least I can do........
     
  14. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Count me in! You're always looking for ways to share the art--that's great! I love the positivity.
     
  15. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Do you want a full weekend for dumog or a few week nights? If you want to, we can spend a weekend on nothing but knife and dumog. Then I will invite the John and his crew, Keith and his crew and Brian and Jeff's crew. Basically all of us Hoosier and Illini folks........

    We can call it the DTS Dumog / Wecome Back Arnisador Seminar!
     
  16. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Well, that would hit my biggest interests, but be sure to make everyone happy!
     

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