Discussion in 'JKD-Kali' started by Rich Parsons, Sep 23, 2005.
Could we have a discussion on what would be a good forum description?
What do you mean by JKD-Kali
Is JKD-Kali the Inosanto blend, or some other flavor?
This would be for the Inosanto lineage but open to others.
I'm just curious where you got the name JKD-Kali because as far as I know Guro Inosanto has never used that term to describe his blend system. He usually just says Filipino Martial Arts or if he uses a name it is Lacoste-Inosanto system. I've only been a student of his since 1997, so it may predate me, but I've never seen it used by any other instructors under Guro Inosanto.
The JKD instructors that I've met refer to it that way. Don't know if it's correct or not? No offense intented toward anyone if we are using incorrect term.
I don't think most people in the Inosanto camp will really care that much about the name because we all use different terminology anyway. I googled the name and found a couple of sites that refer to Inosanto blend martial arts as JKD-Kali. It might be used by people who want to emphasize that they take a more JKD approach to training the Filipino Martial Arts. That's how one of my training partners does it, he just doesn't use the name. I hope that's helpful.
Alot of the arts are currently missing descriptions. How about writing a line or 3 that we can add to the main page decribing this art?
It's kind of hard to give a very exact description, but I'd say that JKD-Kali is a composite system of Filipino Martial Arts taught by Dan Inosanto based on his training with various Filipino Martial Arts instructors including; John Lacoste, Regino Illustrisimo, Leo Giron, Leo Gaje, Jack Santos and many others. There is no set curriculum or progression in the system (though there are common techniques and concepts that are regularly taught by Guro Inosanto). Each instructor is encouraged to create their own curriculum for their students, thus the wide variety of what is taught under the JKD-Kali banner. Some instructors choose to emphasize certain elements of the blend that they prefer, for example, a heavy JKD influence with less emphasis on complex patterned drills and more sparring, or heavy influence from another Filipino Martial Art that the instructor may have studied like Pekiti Tirsia or Dog Brothers Martial Arts. There is a lot of emphasis on the individual as opposed to the system itself. I hope that helps.
Could you give us some examples?
PS: Apollo we need more smilies.
Guro Inosanto always teaches some form of Abecedario and some form of Sumbrada. These are the two central training methods in his system.
Abecedario is essentially where the feeder presents attacks or responses to attacks to allow their partner, the receiver, to practice a specific technique. This can be trained in a variety of formats from the most basic where you hold your stick out on a given line so that the receiver can practice the basic positioning of a block to a more advanced format where the feeder does an undetermined fake to an undetermined positive attack which requires the receiver to respond naturally and fluidly or get hit.
Contra Y Contra Sumbrada is essentially where two training partners go back and forth with attacks and defenses. These can be in a standard format like the 6 Count Sumbrada seen in many FMA systems or it can be in a free flow method. It can also be done in any range, Hubad is essentially Sumbrada at close quarters. Again it can be done in a very simple format to a very complex almost sparring format.
Guro Inosanto seems to teach the more simple versions if the class has more beginning students and the more complex free-flow versions to an advanced class. Either way he always seems to teach fast, at least for me.
As far as specific techniques go, he has certain progressions that he likes to teach, some from specific systems and some are his own blend from different systems. There are a ton of these progressions and I'm just an apprentice and don't pretend to know them all. I think a good example of a classic progression of his is the long range progression, where you hit the hand of the incoming weapon. You can meet the force, follow the force, backhand the force or forehand the force. As the feed gets more complex there are more options. I hope this helps.
IMO, the forum needs to be renamed. I have never heard Guro Inosanto refer to what he does as "JKD Kali".
Rename it to "Inosanto/Lacoste Blend Kali".
Forum Description attempt
Building on Epa's post and the Inosanto web page I suggest:
The Inosanto/Lacoste Blend Kali is a composite system of Filipino Martial Arts taught by Dan Inosanto based on his training with various Filipino Martial Arts instructors including; John Lacoste, Regino Illustrisimo, Leo Giron, Leo Gaje, Jack Santos and many others. It introduces students to 12 main areas, including, but not limited to single stick, double stick, stick & dagger, double dagger, staff, panatukan (Filipino boxing), Sikaran (Filipino kicking methods), Kuntao & Silat.
I also agree with Ern-Dog. Change the forum name to Inosanto/Lacoste Blend Kali.
I agree. As a former Inosanto Blend student, I think that "Inosanto" alone or "Inosanto Blend" would be a more fitting name.
Or even "Inosanto/Lacoste Blend Kali (JKD)" in case there's confusion from other JKD groups that don't use that name but do follow simialr training? Or does Mr. Inosanto consider this a separate art from JKD?
I'm pretty sure that Guro Inosanto considers JKD (Jun Fan Gung Fu whatever other name you like) and his Filipino Martial Arts different arts. Though most of his students train in both, and many also train in Majapahit (his blended silat system), he certifies people in each art individually.
So someone could be a full instructor under him in JKD and not in the Filipino Martial Arts. In fact, this was the case with Sifu Larry Hartsell, one of Guro Inosanto's oldest students and closest friends. Sifu Larry was a full instructor in JKD, but not in Filipino Martial Arts for a long time because Guro Inosanto didn't like the way he moved with a stick. That was many years ago and by now I'm pretty sure Sifu Larry is a full instructor in FMA as well.
So both arts are ranked separately and have different sets of progressions within them. Guro Inosanto has these progressions laid out in separate notebooks that he sometimes references in his seminars and classes. I think most of the confusion comes from the fact that when he teaches he freely mixes anything and everything making it seem like it's one art. Sometimes, he'll use panantukan entries or combinations inside a JKD training method like ABD on the focus mitts or he'll use a kali feeding pattern to modify that same drill. He mixes the arts freely and encourages his students to do so, but the actual arts themselves are separate and have distinct sets of drills, concepts and techniques. I hope that clears things up.
I was the one who came up with the title for this area. The reason is that the are more than one JKD organization that does one form of FMA or another, not being restricted to Inosanto Blend. This way more than one group can participate in this section. Case in point, Burton Richardson has recently started a new program called Battlefield Kali.
Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be much conversation other than the title of the area. Each area will be judged on whether of not there is a need for them. If not, exsisting thread will be merged into one of the misc areas. So let's get this area rolling!!!
What I study in Paul Vunak's PFS version of the art doesn't seem to be the Inosanto/Lacoste blend (or if it is, it's a very small subset of it)...if this forum is intended for all JKD styles, then the name is probably good as is. Indeed, I'm now temporarily studying with another JKD instructor who is from the Dan Inosanto lineage, and the title of his JKD class is "Kali-JKD" on the shedule.
But perhaps there's enough interest in the Inosanto/Lacoste blend for it to have its own forum?
Here's a link with a detailed curriculum for the Lacosta/Inosanto Blend :
I've changed the description, but left the name alone for now. I think the intention is for this to cover all forms of FMA as practiced within the context of JKD.
Separate names with a comma.