Force Recon Ginuntings

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by Shonin, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I have to show the world the strength of these blades. No one can compete with the stregth od these blades. The video i will make, I know no one else will be able to the same thing. The proof will be in the videos. i have had a lot of customers also cut things up and record it.

    Believe it or not, i cringe when i see these used as testing tool. I hate to see them scratched.[​IMG]

    I have not seen Guro Dan in about a year. I spend all my time around grand tuhon lately and the times i can see him are usually the times i can see Guro Dan. Plus I have not had time to go to CA lately duer to this sword business and my school. I need a freakin vacation man![​IMG]
     
  2. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    Did those plastic trainers ever materialize?
     
  3. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    PM Malapitan.
     
  4. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    My understanding is that the more traditional Ginuntings are weighted more heavily toward the blade, and swing almost like an ax(the blade *wants* to chop at things), wheras the force recon ones are longer, and more handle-heavy to facilitate their use as a tool as much as a weapon.

    I've also heard it said that the force recon blade is a more *western* blade design.

    Would this be accurate?
     
  5. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Mis-information. SHow me where there is mis-information. He did make one one mistake in describing about 50 differnet blades. No one knows everything about all the blades on the TFW site. The blades there are from all over the Philippines, not just from one area. For Grand Tuhon leo Gaje to know as much as he did sure speaks well about his knowledge in the area of bladed weapons.

    I find your comment rude. Though you are entitled to yuor opinion, it does not make it a correct statement. Especailly since you are the only one who feels that way!
     
  6. mabagani

    mabagani Pendato

    I agree with Labantayo.
    There are scholars here who can point out the misinformation...
     
  7. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Scholars will give scholarly answers with proof to back up the statements. Hatred of a certain teacher or style does not back up a statement. Like I said before, me and Mumbakki have done a LOT of research on these blades. Finding and getting all these blades from old men that had them laying around and with us reviviing them to the public gives us more knowledge on the subject than most people will have. The informaion Grand Tuhon Leo gave was very accurate, he made a mistake in explaining the Panabas...we all make mistakes. Nothing wrong with that as I see it. Anyone asks, I tell them! Besides the fact that I put the name of each sword in caption in each video so you can see what it is anyway. I don't understand why it makes you feel good to put him and the videos down with no facts to back your statement up. Its merely a put down and thats it.

    The TFW site is created to keep a lot of the old Philippine history alive for those who are interested with unmatched quality weapons. Grand Tuhon likes what we are doing and the fact that I am spreading it all over the world. Who else is doing that?

    By the way, The history and current use of each blade on the site is brief right now. There will be a more accurate history on each blade coming soon.
     
  8. mabagani

    mabagani Pendato

    who said anything about hatred of a teacher or style?
    your site has many inaccuracies but its a commercial site so i don't take its seriously.
    i've seen it change over time without corrections, so you're spreading more misinformation.
    still have the kampilan hilts backwards?
     
  9. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    Maybe split off the discussion of the video(if it's highly specific) into it's own thread? If you have more information to correct whatever was wrong, I'm sure that would be informative(i've only watched a few minutes of said video, so I won't even remotely pretend to be able to contribute).
     
  10. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I will give you that one on the Kampilan. We are fixing that problem. But besides that which was noticed, where are the other innacuracys?

    The history is in the process of being added to and rewritten from what was the use to the uses today of each weapon. It takes more than one person to do that because no one person can explain every single weapon and design on the sight. Right now, the info on there is not innacurate...more like brief at the moment. And the products are second to none. i know that because i have seen and i have many from elsewhere and they cannot touch what i have here on the TFW site. I am selling them all over the world to collectors who are saying the same thing. So, something is going correctly here.

    We are constantly evolving. Its takes time and money to do it so it is a slow process. Some of you are fast to put it down without knowing the big picture. We started all this from scratch and its doing well. the changes will be educational and good for collectors when it is done. Of course, my own education on the subject is increasing as I go along.
     
  11. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I say that because it seems that Leo Gaje and Pekiti tirsia seems to take a lot of critisism. Grand Tuhon Leo is doing the videos and the videos are getting critisism. I thought he did a good job. Again, it was a brief explaination of each on however, the video was 58 minutes long and he explained about 50 weapons on it.
     
  12. themorningstar

    themorningstar New Member

    inaccuraccies

    honestly, where would you like any of us to begin with the inaccuracies?
    the last time, i personally tried to point out your inaccuracies and you attacked me as well as deleted the thread. you vehemently stated that all the information on your site as well as the designs were 100% accurate as well as authentic, being made by a tribe who has made them for hundreds of years and the information on the swords coming from history professors in the philippines-which now contradicts the information you are posting.
    i tried to help you in hopes of fixing the information as well as the designs to try and stay accurate... and now look where its ended up..
    what would you do with the information on the inaccuraccies now anyway? would you go and change them like you did to your "talibong" handle?
    my honest belief is that you will sell more blades and make more money if you just told the truth- that the blades are modern reproductions and not 100% accurate but that your trying to fix that instead of insisting that you have done your research and putting sandata researchers and collectors down.
    i have nothing to gain from pointing out your inaccuracies, but what do you have to gain from putting down the official philippine force recon marine ginunting maker as well as other native sword makers?
    here's your post from your own forum as an example- http://forum.psdtc.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2762
    Posted - 09/03/2008 : 23:35:50 [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]quote: [/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp247/typhoon-blades/DSC_6554b.jpg [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp247/typhoon-blades/DSC_6558b.jpg[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp247/typhoon-blades/DSC_6570b.jpg[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]________________________[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Peace, Love and PitBulls[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Maxx[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://myspace.com/pitbullstribe[/FONT]


    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Edited by - Max Lancaster on 09/03/2008 21:47:38[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Those are not traditional sheaths. I know who makes those but the steel does not match ours. I have Ginuntings http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Ginunting.html just order it there. if you do not like the traditional sheath, having a kydex sheath made is easy. Just look in knife mags or maybe the phone book. Its cheap to have made. Cheaper than having a custom made wooden sheath, believe me! [/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Ron Kosakowski[/FONT]
    [/FONT]


    -so here's my question... do you really wanna know the inaccuraccies?
     
  13. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    First off...where did I put any cllectors or researchers down? I have asked people who do research to contribute to the TFW site. I have got some offers but they haven't done much about it as ofyet. Anyone who knows me, knows that i am open to information. You don't know me so you guess at it.

    As for a thread that was deleted...the only thread that was deleted was a person who rudely went in just to bust balls and that was all it was. If that was you and that was the thread then your intelligence level is not where you think it is. Every time i went in to say my part, all I got was, "your getting mad, huh Ron?" And saying stuff that was rather insulting. I got numerous e-mails from people saying to delete the thread because the person in their sounded like an idiot just busting balls. I was not getting mad, just frustrated that the subject was not going in the direction of the original thread. Actually, the guy who is a moderater on my forum deleted it feeling he was justified and we all agreed with his move on that one.

    now you are attacking the talibong design. First off, I have seen various designs even on old talibongs. It is up to the blade designer to have his own personal charactoristics to the design as long as it is still the "traditional' look. That has been going on for many years. And yes, my friend in the Philippines has learned his trade handed down to him and his family and friends by his family. It did not pop out of his mind and he just decided to do it.

    As for the forum stuff you wasted your time putting in here...whats wrong with it? The steel is not the same quality. I pay extra to have 5160 and D2 and other stuff sent to my blade makers from outside the country. Plus other stuff is done for the hardening process. Sorry but that process cannot be beat in the Philippines. There is a lot more to this business than maybe you know.

    If you are trying to break into the business, good luck with it. They are nice looking but I am in the business so I am going to push my products. Why you copied and pasted that thread from my website forum, I don't know. People want me to use kydex...I tell them i sell them the traditional way , not the modern way. Nothing wrong with that! If you are Pilipino, you should be happy that I am taking such an interest in your history and culture to put it out to the public like I do. Thats why i strive for perfection in every way and thats why it is evolving. And that bothers you?

    As for inaccuraccies, if there are any, I will find them and fix them. I said it Traditional Filipino Weapons is constantly evolving because no one person can know about every single weapon in the north, the south and everywhere in between.
     
  14. themorningstar

    themorningstar New Member

    well, in regards to your talibong design- are you willing to offer a refund or a replacement for the change you made?
    you know, this one- http://marcialtirada.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Filipino_TALIBONG.18204532_std.jpg
    to this one- http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Images/Sandata Large/Talibong.jpg

    or how about to those people who bought your kampilan with the backwards hilt? will you now make a recall and offer a refund or replacement since you've "caught" your mistake?
    if i were in the sword business-i would feel horrible and try to make amends to my customers.
    i would also be upset with my makers since they put the handle on backwards and had continued to for a few years.

    well.. i wish you the best of luck.. i really do...
    i just hope you catch your inaccuraccies... otherwise it would be a shame to still market them as traditional...

    and by the way.. you would be really surprised to know how much one person can find out about philippine blades if they allow themselves to learn....
     
  15. mabagani

    mabagani Pendato

    "big picture" ?
    what i observe is "the cart before the horse"...
    misinformation put out as fact before researching.
    but what can you expect from a business site, you get a sales pitch and you choose where you spend your money?

    besides the kampilan and other info on the wtf site thats been wrong for years, what about everyone who has read the site, believed the misinformation and repeated it?
    i'm filipino and i've researched our weaponry, collectors fortunate to see the real thing and studied them would know the mistakes right away but with everyone else its buyer beware...

    i could see why knowledgeable people would be fast to criticize...
    if they are filipino or not they see non-traditional replicas and inaccurate information about the history and weaponry trying to be passed off as traditional and authentic when they are not.
    i know some of the collectors of real stuff in the fma forums, they all say the same thing- form is off, made in the same place, not from traditional origins, incorrect info...etc.
    not really keeping traditions alive...actually taking away from natives of each region from which weapons originated, making a profit at their expense...
    some say why correct it, they'll just use the info to sell more replicas.

    all i can say is- i know you can still get traditionally made blades at a fraction of the cost in local philippine markets and if you want to keep the traditions alive buy them direct, search out schools or individuals who have local contacts, that way you're keeping the real traditions alive and feeding the native economy.

    i prefer old weapons, but when i buy something recently made i'd rather go direct to the source...imo..your choice
     
  16. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    I don't need luck! they are selling all over the world! Nothing you can say here that is going to stop it. I now have 1000's of people that are satisfied with my products and are continually buying more due to the quality. You stalking me on forums thinking you are insulting my business is a waste of your time and effort.

    Like I said when you came on to my forum (on the thread that was deleted because you were acting immature and rude) I have friends all over the Philippines from the north to the south. I have never come across anyone who was not kind, helpful and very generous. You must be an Americanized Pilipino. You seem very angry! [​IMG]

    By the way, allthe friends I have in the Philippines love what I am doing with the site and the blades also. I think you are a minority on tis subject bro![​IMG]
     
  17. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Its not a sales pitch...they are very high quality. if you do not have one in your hands or if you never had one in your hands, how can you judge any differently? And as far as going to the sourse...no one in the Philippines makes the same high quality I have. Read my previous post...they don't have the steel I pay extra to import there to my blade makers. And you will not be able to go to my blade makers and buy them! Its a TFW business now![​IMG]

    As for the antiques, of course, I agree! I love the antique swords as well. I have a large collection of them. I wanted to go into the antique Pilipino sword business as well. The problem is, I want to keep everything I get. The thought of what they may have been used for whether as a tool of for killing is amazing to me. I can almost feel it when holding an antique. That makes it hard to sell at any price. New ones are easier to get rid of because i know i can just have more made.
     
  18. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Ron- All I really have to say is that whenever one of my students or associates says they were looking for blades online your site always gets rave reviews.
     
  19. mabagani

    mabagani Pendato

    i've collected and studied long enough to know what i like when i see it. imo, most of the swords on your site verge on fantasy rather than traditional because with each type you make, i know they are not coming from traditional sources, ex. visayan swords from the visayas, moro swords from the bangsamoro, etc.
    my point being, i'd rather support and buy from cottage industries in each of the different respective regions of the philippines to keep their traditions alive.
    and you openly admit to importing work and material from outside of the philippines, yet continue to make claims about tradition and authenticity.
    i didn't intend to or suggest buying direct from your blade sources. no disrespect to your blade makers, but as a matter of choice, i'd rather buy and support the local markets and economies in different parts of the philippines to keep their traditions alive even though they don't have the hi tech imported steel, nothing wrong with real time honored local traditions. not like the bladesmiths and warriors of old relied on some hi tech modern steel. lolz
     
  20. Spunjer

    Spunjer New Member


    nothing personal with your students and associates, Brock, but the ol' saying "ignorance is bliss" comes to mind...
     

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