Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by Zeph, Feb 15, 2007.
I agree that it would be better to just all get along.
It sure is alot easier said than done, but for as long as there are people that hunger for power, it's not likely to happen anytime soon. People that are in the martial arts are human too, and they are not above such motives.
Modern arnis , PTK
As far as i know G.T, Gaje might have suggested the name Modern Arnis to G.M. Presas when he started teaching his own art, but never said he was the founder or head of Modern Arnis. Why would he? They both lead there own very large groups world wide. This just sounds like another misinterpitation of something that was said long ago.
You know this is kind of off subject, but with the talk of Prof Presas and G. T. Gaje it always amazes me how it seems you can almost do a Six Degrees of Separation with any major instructor in the FMA community.
Sure, but that doesn't make it a less worthy goal, nor does it mean that a hunger for power is OK because everyone else is doing it. Overall I think our systems (whichever they are) benefit more taking the high road than they do from squabbling.
Some of this might be communication failure or a language barrier. Someone hears something said takes the wrong meaning and retells the story changing it a little. The next person repeats and the snbowball starts. I see it all the time in law enforcement.
D.T, P.T. and M.A.
I think thats true. When i can even find most of the articals that stated stuff like this most of the time it said something else altogther, anyway thats what i've come to findout. Also FMA allows for your own way of doing things in the first place.
Quite possible indeed. I also think it's important to point out that Tuhon Gaje and Tuhon Nene had their differences, but their differences are not necessarily their students' differences.
Seperate from politics
I like my Guro like to keep myself seperated from and out of politics. I rather train and excel than to take part in arguements.
I try to keep out of the politics myself, but if I see something said against one of my instructors that I believe inaccurate, I will say something in their defense. I try to be polite and repectful when I do it though. Sometimes the person on the other end isn't as respectful and there's need to be "firm".
As I do not have a copy in my hands then take it for nothing.
Do a search and see if it is there if you wish. Unfortunately it will require someone with access to old magazines.
As to why would he? I can not speak to any reason why. I know some people always make issues of things and how something was done or who was there (* in an abstract sense of any subject any issue *).
let it go
Why don't you let it go . It seems like this was argument about D.T. and P.T.K. not about Modern Arnis, but you used as a chance to hint that my teacher was not of high moral fiber. I seem to remember a story about G.M. Presas having a falling out with his brother and lets not forget the internal struggle going on in M.Arnis . It's alway best to stay out of family fight's in the first place. Anyway there seems to be about 6 diffrent groups within your art at this time.Each one is the real deal. Not to mention no hard proof as to where T.Gaje's stament was made in the first place. Let he who is with out sin throw the first stone thats a good thing to remember. I know what i said about G.M. Tortal is mosty true because it is based on facts . There was an artical , it was written by Guro Ron Harris and it was in inside kung fu in the early 90'S. I still have a copy in my files, now when you can do the same i will listen but until then i say hogwash and poppycock. Now what do you have to say? Also have you ever met G.T. Gaje? I always like to meet people before i judge what i heard about them. I have not seen G.M. Presas that why i don't say anthing about him , I don't have anything to judge it on.
You have made the point I was trying to make. This is not the first time. Nor do I expect it to be the last time something like this happens.
I apologize my files were destroyed with the ex-wife. So like I said I stand aside in the lack of proof but say if it bothers a person then try to investigate.
If you don't mind - which issue exactly?
As far as accuracy....
Greetings to All,
I know that there was some question as far as the accuracy as to what was stated in the Gaje Blog. I personally when to Gaje's Blog and looked to see if the same article that was posted was indeed the same posted here on the FMAtalk, and it is. Here is the link:
CLick on the Blog portion and you should see it. Scroll down the blog page and it should be the 4th article from the top.
Inside Kung-Fu artical
I'll have to dig it out, i just moved and all my stuff is in storage. Now get me stright i am not saying G.M. Tortal did not study P.T.K. i am saying he did alot of his early training with G.M Chavez and his group as well as Lapu-Lapu kali. Tortal was also head of the Negros Occidental arnis federation formed in 1986 to promote both Dose Princeapales and Lapu Lapu Kali as well as tapado , and that while a Master of arnis he was not the heir to P.T.K. ,but having said all that, the artical has a photo of a very young Nene playing at Kali. The artical itself was about G.M. Chavez and his style. I think it was 1990 .I can try and get intouch with Ron Harris and ask him.
Thanks, I'd appreciate that.
I have made no assumptions as to what you are saying other than what you have written - which is one of the reasons I'd like to know the exact issue of "Inside Kung Fu" that you are refering to.
When? How long did he stay? Why did he leave?
PTK and G.M. Tortal
To whom it may concern,
Inside Kung Fu Aug,1990 lapu lapu kali by Ron Harris is one source. I have to get the other from Ron or inside kung fu. That 2nd article was about G.M. Chavez and his arnis group. The rest of my info is thru conversations with Tim Waid, Tuhon Gaje Guro, Ron Harris and a letter from Guro Mike Vasquez. Also Tuhon Bill's own website states that Tuhon Gaje is the heir to PTK. As for how long Nene trained i don't know. Also two such highly trained teachers as yourselfs should see the diffrence in the two arts, i can. G.M. Tortal's love of disarm's seems to come from Lapu Lapu which trains disarms alot . As far as i know it was personal differances that brought abut the seperation of T. Leo and G.M. Nene. Just as it did with Tuhon Bill. All i can say is that all three Tuhon's have very diffrent styles. But Tuhon Gaje's being most like what i learned from Maginoo Tom Bisio when i first started. In fact there is no diffrence because Tom learned the doce methodos from Leo. Now i have invited both Wes and Steve to G.Tuhon Gaje's seminar's when he is intown come and see for yourself. Also see Tim, aside from Tom he is the best i have ever saw. All i wanted was a teacher i was happy with and with Maginoo Tim and Tuhon Gaje i have found what i have been missing, only Tom comes close but he does not teach PTK anymore. Maginoo Tom was amazing .When i get a copy of the 2nd article i will post the info.
Hope that helps
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