"FMA-Cheapened" (Dekiti Tirsia) by GT Gaje

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by Zeph, Feb 15, 2007.

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  1. Zeph

    Zeph New Member

    Hello everyone,

    I found this blog on GT Gaje's website...


    FMA-cheapened (Dekiti-Tirsia)
    "I bring this subject of Dekiti-Tirsia because this name destroys the Tortals family and the legacy of the true system. I was confronted by many who attended the seminar of Nene Tortal questioning the Dekiti-Tirsia claimed to be a Tortal family system. The real truth is there is no "Dekiti-Tirsia" Nene Tortal is not what he claims to be inheriting and learned from his father Balbino Tortal. His father died during the war when he was 7 years and with his other brothers left with their mother. I can contest this statement because it is a shame that the Tortals family is being a victim of lying and false information. And more so the people that believe on this lie of Nene Tortal. He is not DekitiTirsia as a system because a system can be presented with Professionalism and after two hours seminar Nene Tortal has nothing to teach except disarming. So those who believe him is conspirator to the lies that he spread among the FMA student. If he is not a Tortal I don't mind it but a Tortal that lies affects me since , my grandfather is his father bnother.

    Many knew that Nene Tortal is not Dekiti-Tirsia and he has very limited knowledge. All what he does is stolen techniques from Pekiti-Tirsia. he took most of my training tape and he didn't return and what he does is copy and pirate the techniques what is Pekiti _tirsia except disarming .So there is no Dekiti-Tirsia.

    Those who claimed authority under the Tortal family should come out and proved that he has enough knowledge of the Tortal's system .

    Selling instructors certificate is prostituting the FMA. And this is what you get from the immitation Peklti-Tirsia. And for those who buys Instructors certificate is just as an idiot like the seller. It is shamefull that one of my Pekiti-Tirsia instrucrtor was offered to buy Dekiti-Tirsia Instructors certificate for thousands of dollars.

    Nene Tortal learned from Greg Alland the art of sellling , the art of ********. So both of them has good business about FMA -Do you still believe these guys.

    I want to clean the bad impression about the Tortal family on this certificate deal . It can be settled in many ways . Rommel Tortal a Philippiune Resident Instructor claims the righful Tortals System and he is Nene Tortal younger brother son. Rommel Tortal was the stick bagman of Nene Tortal for many years and yet he didn't learn anything from Nene Tortal. Many stories about Nene Tortal but mostly were untrue. Like he claims he taught the Philippine Army , it was not the Philippine Army but students cadets under the ROTC-reserve officers training corps . This alone Nene Tortal claim as Philippine Army , it is a big lie.

    Rommel Tortal , my second man in the Pekiti-Tirsia kali system has been outstanding instructor for many years. he topped the cllass on water combat scuba and he is now a regular officer and a gentleman. those who may read , please forward it to ligitimate students of FMA"
     
  2. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    I prolly shouldn't say to much because Tuhon Nene is my instructos' instructor...but man.....that sounds like more sour grapes than it does honest criticism.

    What I've sean of Tuhon Gaje is limited to some videos of a time before he and Tuhon Nene split. What I've seen of Tuhon Nene is restricted to some limited in-person interaction. There are similarities...as there are across the FMAs. However, what Tuhon Nene seemed to relay left both me and my training partner with the impression that there was a lot of law enforcement influences.

    The way Tujon Gaje presents his opinion leaves me a bit flat as well. I haven't been around the system to comment on what is or is not true. To claim his innovations are restricted to disarms...I'm struggling to see the coverage. It takes a helluva lot more skill to disarm a hostile blade than it does to attack and cut someone with it. Some of the moves that are "pirated" make me wonder if by the same standards, musicians would be pirating each other when they play "The Blues".

    Between the name calling and the profanity, I'm left feeling that this was little more than an attention seeking bluster of unverifiable truths. I have quite a bit of respect for Tuhon Gaje and the good folks that train in his lineage, but for the person he claims to be...Tuhon Gaje's professionalism and stature leave a lot to be desired. :bow:
     
  3. Beungood

    Beungood New Member

    Tuhon Gaje and his instructors train the Phillipine Force Recon Marines and the Phillipine Special Action Force Police among others. He also formulated Survivasl Edged systems Defensive tactics for law enforcement which addresses liability and counterability. They are also involved with Us Marine NEST school(Jungle Survival). I can't speak to the aboveas it is a familiy matter between the men, but in my interaction with him I have never heard say these things.
    In bladed combat from my persepective I would rather cut someone and take him out of the fight than try to disarm him. Not a shot at anyone just a tactical decision.
     
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    My experiences with Mr. Tortal have been very good! I know there is some bad blood between the groups, but all I know is that I always look forward to Mr. Tortal's visits to the area.

    I have heard him make claims that certain techniques were lifted from his system by others.
     
  5. kabaroan

    kabaroan Kabaroan

    How unfortunate that this is effecting the arts

    This is my opinion and my opinion only.

    I have full respect for my elders. It pains me to see discord among FMA practitioners. From my research in FMA, it seems that discord has been a common theme.

    Back in the 60s, the late Grandmaster Leo Giron (Bahala Na) and the late Grandmaster Angel Cabales (Cabales Serrada) taught together then had a rift that separated the two for quite a period of time. It wasn't until later that the two finally put their differences aside.

    At GM Cabales' passing there seemed to be a lot of discord among the practioners that caused quite a bit of controversy within their community. I'm glad to hear that much of that has been burried as well.

    I hope in time that the differences between the parties involved can be overcome and the arts can become stronger as a result.

    The arts of the Philippines (and all Martial Arts) should be preserved and practiced and taught to all who are interested. Above all, as practioners of the arts, we should be inclusive of each other, not exclusive.

    Just my rambling thoughts.
     
  6. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    All I have seen from GM Gaje has been good. I have only seen it in picture or video. I do not question his skills.

    I know some guys in Pekiti who train well and hard and are good guys.

    But one wonders, if there was a GM Remy Presas Blog would someone bring up GM Gaje trying to claim to be the Father/GM of Modern Arnis as publish in a mid 70's magazine?

    I know people make mistakes.

    I know people can have a falling out

    I know it can get ugly with he said and they said and did comments.

    Yet for someone to get upset with his claims to lies, when he himself has this in his history?

    I wish GM Gaje the best and hope all can be resolved.
     
  7. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    This stuff happens in every art. Doesn't make it right, but it's kinda' like death and taxes. When te founder of an art dies he leaves behind several talented students and eveyone wants to be top dog, and in alot of cases maybe a couple of them are talented enough that they should be, so maybe the fact that they divded is okay, but the name calling and discrediting needn't take place. Just look at what's happened to Modern Arnis since Prof. Presas passed away. There are several good organisations that carry on the flame so to speak and there are a couple of so-so orgs. out there that are using their "affiliation" with the Prof. to hide the fact that they are so-so. Doesn't mean you're wasting your time training with them because they do have some good stuff to teach, but there are other better choices if you have access to them. I think I may have even made a pint with all of this rambling, but I'm so tired from shoveling snow right now that, I can't remember what it was supposed to be.
     
  8. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    In other words, its better if we focus on our training instead of our bickering. That works for me :) :)
     
  9. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    lohelo

    anybody home? how do i find people to chat???
    dan
     
  10. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    wasabi?
     
  11. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    hey mike???
     
  12. jus_dann

    jus_dann New Member

    you must be writing some good over there
     
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    We don't currently have a chat facility, but this forum can be used for that purpose!

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  14. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Carol that is always the best way to go! [​IMG]
     
  15. Gilla

    Gilla -== Banned ==-

    Pekiti ,Dekiti

    O.K once again i am forced to say something about the history of PTK. Leo is the only male heir of Conrado Tortal and as such was taught to be the one to carry on the system. Nene is his Uncle and his father was killed during WW2. So could not teach him. Nene spent most of his time learning from G.M.Amador Chavez of the Dose Principales System not PTK.This was in the late 40's and into 50's He is also a high ranking Karate instructor, shoto- kan i belive. He did not come into the PTK fold until much later. The myth was started by Mark Wiley in his book on the Masters of FMA and was never questioned. I have seen Nene's art and it is much stiffer and more ridgid than PTK and to me dosn't not look much like it. Whle Leo might have upset some people with his tone he is for the most part right about his statement that Dekiti is not Pekiti. All of this info can be found in an old inside kung fu story and backed up by Guro Mike Vasques, a student of G.M. Chavez. Once again another fairy tale debunked.
    Eddie
     
  16. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Not only debunked, but it doesn't insult either person's ability.
     
  17. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    why is it that...

    hmmm...."Tortal learned from Greg Alland..."

    Well, since I KNOW Mr. Alland personally and have regular interaction with him, I can say this:

    1.) Mr. Alland is good teacher & a very skilled practioner of PT (trust me, I
    have felt his skill many times, and let me tell you...it hurts on
    occasion!)

    2.) Mr. Alland also happens to be a an individual who wants to promote
    the FMA in anyway possible, and happens to do it in a business like
    fashion. He happens to be good at promoting the 'art' commercially
    and he can actually make a living at it. I mean, hey, if I could make
    a living in teaching, promoting, and spreading the word about the
    beauty of the FMA's, well then, whats wrong with that? I sure
    wouldn't mind doing that at all.

    Also, Rich P., thanks for jumping in on this one. I know that you and I have actually talked about this topic before and I definitely see your point in reference to the incident in the 70's concerning GM Presas & GM Gaje and that whole ordeal.

    "Why can't we all just get along?"


    W.v.
     
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I met Mr. Alland once at a DTS seminar. He is very skilled and very excited about the FMAs!
     
  19. Gilla

    Gilla -== Banned ==-

    Modern Arnis , PTK

    This is the 2nd time I heard this myth . Can anyone name the author of this story ,which magazine? As far as I know it's another story , like alligators in the sewer. As far as I know G.M. Gaje never made that statement. All I know is a lot of systems bite off PTK , about 8 other G.M trained under Gaje at one time or another. Modern Arnis is not even close to looking like PTK . Grand Tuhon Gaje has a right to be upset with all this, he never get's his due just a bunch a story's someone heard or was told. (I showed him all his knife he was just a beginner when i met him etc.) Let's not even start about Mr. Alland ,
    hogwash is a good word for all of this.
    Eddie
     
  20. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    I believe it was an "Inside Kung-Fu". I will have to do some research. But I talked to GM Presas and he told me in person that someone had tried to take his art in name and claim to be the GM. GM Remy Presas did not mention the name at the time. He was not like that. I later talked with others who referred me to this print.

    My point in reference was not to try to degrade the opinion of GM Gaje, but to make the point that this is not the first time stuff like this happens.
     
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