Flavors of Balintawak

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by fangjian, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    Here's a little video I made for fun and thought others may like it. I may re-do it in the future with some better clips.

    Teovel : [ Jayme, Taboada, Vedua, Gaabucayan, Elizar, Velez, ]
    Historical Footage

    Any suggestions??

  2. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    Don't forget Ted Buot.
  3. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Maranga Balintawak is now called Combate Eskrima Maranga..
  4. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    The way I wrote the styles: Ted Buot, Sergio Arcel, Rad Maningas, David Hatch and Robert Cinco just fell under the title 'Original'. I didn't leave him out per se.

    All the other surnames after Original are their own 'flavors' themselves so I added their names. But note for instance, I wrote 'Moncal'. Not 'Veeck' and 'Balinado'.

    Yes it is not called Maranga Balintawak but CEM. I like how the 'flavors' are outlined connecting them back to 'Balintawak' instead of calling them by their actual titles. Do you think I should put that instead? Instead of 'Maranga', write 'CEM. Instead of 'Moncal', write 'Necopa' ??
  5. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    Maybe a 'footnote' of some sort would have been beneficial . ugh. I hate when I think of things after the fact.
    I planned on revising the video at some point anyway though
  6. free2flow

    free2flow New Member

    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  7. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    You send me messages about things I post. And yet you post the above.

    Thank you for showing me once again you have an agenda to make something for yourself. I respect that everyone does. Yet you deny it and you seem to try to come off as someone who takes others down and tries to build himself up.

    The whole Balintawak Community can succeed, it is not an issue of "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!".

    Once again disppointed.
  8. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    Actually I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

    2 issues:

    - I send you messages about things u post?

    - I have an agenda?
  9. Cochise

    Cochise Member

    I am a bit puzzled...not that I have read every post that's in this forum, but fangjian's postings always came off as very balanced to me, and as simply interested in the topics he was posting or asking about.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  10. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    No clue, here. I think I rubbed him the wrong way a while back. Regarding things recently, I don't have a clue what he is talking about. My agenda with that video was, 'to make a cool Balintawak video for all of us'.
  11. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    Is this because I didn't ( in the video ) write :

    Buot Balintawak
    Arcel Balintawak

    But instead just put them together and said "Original " ????????????
  12. Cochise

    Cochise Member

    If it is, then...well, I don't know. If I remember correctly, not every teacher shown is named by his last name in the video.
  13. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    The only group I did that with, was Teovel ( cause there are so many ).
  14. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    My Issues with are the following:

    1) I get messages when I post at GM Bacons's Club. I am told that I am trying to put others down. I am trying to only show there can only be one.

    Yet, I see here people using the words per se as I did mention them per se.

    2) You agenda is to make you and those you train with look good. I agree this is good. Yet you also seem to always throw a little bit more into it to try to make others look not so good.

    My point is that if you go around making comments about other people, and you go around asking people to not say a truth, and you come off like you are insulted and that you did not do anything wrong. You were not wrong in the video. You were insulting and condescending when you replied to a simple comment about Buot Lineage.

    I believe you and others can all succeed. If we all deliver a good product. So if you do not want my criticism then do not offer it to me. For the hypocrisy of the situation makes you and others associated with Balintawak look bad.

    If I did not care I would not try.

    Yet, I am about to say that you are giving me back what I am teaching. In that case I will not teach , guide nor give constructive comments. It is a lesson I learned from my instructor as he told me about others.

    So promote yourself. Do it well. Train Hard. Teach those who come to you for lessons. Be polite, and do not feat any truth, not fear that a truth make one look weaker. Present yourself well in the community and others will see a professional.

    Not a snarky person. You did not like my response did you. My response was in kind and tone as yours to others. Understand what you give in energy is what you are more likely to get back.

    Good Luck
  15. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    I checked my sent messages etc. and I don't se any messages to you. You sure it was me that messaged you something?
    I remember Tim Hartman saying 'don't forget about Ted Buot. I replied that I did not and that videos of Original Balintawak is what started off the entire video. From the beginning. I don't see what is condescending. Can you copy/paste the sentence for me that looks rude??
    Well... I....guess I didn't like your response. I'm not 'super upset ' or anything, concerned enough to reply and reach out to you though. Misunderstandings online are a dime a dozen though.

    I've had quite a few people email me asking 'what the heck is up with you and Rich? ' Hahaha Unfortunately I don't know what to tell them. I am not too bright, so I have asked others to check out the thread and we are all not sure what you are referring to.
    Again though, if you have time or care, can you just get my response that looks rude? Thanks in advance.

    BTW, you said "Once again, thanks for showing me you have an agenda...".

    What's this all about? Do you really think that day we all met, I wanted to 'challenge you to a fight or something' (I'm assuming that was the issue) ? C'mon Rich
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  16. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Messages were no on this site.

    As to challenging, the feedback I got from some others about how much you were talking things up, I really wish you would have asked to play. Then and there. If you hit me, cool. What people told me you said, just did not set well with me. Nothing was wrong per se, but the comments were not well received.
  17. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    Hmmm. Honestly I don't know, bro. The only people I knew there were you, Tim, Brian, and one of Brian's students. As far as 'talking things up', I have no idea. I was very excited to meet you guys since it's few and far between in meeting other Balintawak. 'Asking to play', nah. I wasn't sure how to go about that, so didn't want to seem out of line. So just didn't bother. There were many people there that payed good money for your time. Trying to cross sticks with you or Tim just seemed inappropriate from someone who was just visiting. I would assume that Brian or his student Mike must have said something to you. I find it likely that I might've joked around and said something like, " ......Yeah, I'm here to meet Tim and Rich. Hopefully I can cross sticks with them if they have time. Beat'em up a little." People who know me know I joke around like that....A LOT. Was it something like that? Did I actually say something like, 'Im here to challenge them'. hahaha I can see Me saying that. lolz

    The above is in regard to the past. What about this new issue? Something about the video I made or something???
  18. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    It was your flippant response to Tim, and the "Per Se" to get out and say technically I did a round about mention. Not doing a mention was fine. How you handled the response was not in my opinion. And based upon past experiences it just did not settle well.

    It is your video. Promote your personal group and your instructors. I see this as a good thing. You are doing the work. Why do you have to support everyone else? You do not. And if you do and if you ask about comments and get comments, do not be condescending.

    As I said before, You should practice and teach and learn and work with your instructors and others to see what you can do. If we all succeed and are bumping heads like the TKD or TSD clubs in my area then it would be different. Yet that is far from the case. We should be able to work with each other. And when we ask for feedback listen to the feedback and be polite (Unless they were insulting and rude first and then either be polite or rude as one see's fit) and respond thank you. Or with "I thought I had covered this by mentioning David Hatch." And then there could have been discussion on topic.
  19. Cochise

    Cochise Member

    Ok, the reason why I answered to this thread in the first place is that I have recently shared this video on the biggest martial arts discussion forum over here because it shows so many different groups. People liked it, so I was wondering what the gripe was.

    Obviously, I can't comment on the whole he-said-she-said thing of your meeting, so my comments pertain only to the video and this thread/forum.

    I thought Tim's comment was somewhat unclear. He either didn't watch the video, or he didn't recognize Ted Buot as the very first person appearing in the video - which I doubt. So if it was about not writing out his name, then I have to say, I agree that there probably should be a note in the video description with all the names of the respective teachers/groups. Fangjian acknowledged as much in his third post in this thread. My teacher is in the video, too, and he's not mentioned by name, but I didn't get all pissy about it. If I (or he for that matter) had any problem with it, I would've made a comment like: "Since my teacher is in that video, would you please mention his name."

    Hardly anybody in the video is really named by their full name, and my guess is that was not the point of the video.

    Accusations of being flippant, condescending, and having an agenda possibly might come from a place of presuming bad intentions. I could not see the condescension in using the term "per se", since not mentioning every instructors name was explained in the rest of posting.

    Now there is this part about working with each other. Rich Parsons says, "Why do you have to support everyone else? You do not." So which is it? Work with each other or not? Or is working with each other not a form of supporting on another? Again, I could see how people might dislike video clips of themselves and/or their teachers being used, so if that's the case, there is a clear and concise way of dealing with that: 1) Make a comment about it to the creator/uploader. 2) If he or she does not reply and/or make changes, report the thing to Youtube and then make a public statement about it if that does not do the trick. At least, that's how I see it, since I simply cannot see the bad intent on fangjian's part in making a tribute video for Balintawak with as many clips as he could find.

    Now, I take exception to the comment about "having an agenda", since, ironically, if I were to associate somebody's posts with an agenda, it would be Rich Parsons' posts rather than fangjian's. One example from memory: Rich Parsons wanted the Atillos off the Balintawak tree after Philipp made a reasonable argument. Weird, considering his own teacher had them on the tree.
    http://www.attributivemartialarts.com/gallery/view.nhtml?profile=gallery&UID=10053 (In my opinion, this tree is pretty disrespectful to a lot of people, by the way.)

    In any case, I hope you guys can work this out in an adult manner, because at the end of the day, FMA are a very tiny part of the martial arts world anyway, and Balintawak is only a very small part of the FMA world, so we shouldn't give people the impression that we're all jerks.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  20. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    The video is the video.

    Jon is Jon. His instructor is a nice man. I have talked and worked with him. I like him. Jon, rubs me wrong with my interactions with him. All his interaction have been that of a jerk. So I guess I should give him a fourth or fifth chance. I accept your premise on this.

    Will you listen to me? I am not asking you to change your mind only listen.

    As to Atillo's, he should be removed per his own comments, as he was a creator and the founder and beat GM Bacon. his Father was a training partner of GM Bacon the founder of the system. He should have something to offer as I said before in writing.

    My problem is the lack of truth. If one writes the truth then there is no issues.

    So why when it comes to Balintawk, and the verbal history all agree on a few things about GM Bacon being the founder, with the exception of GM Atillo and his group. They made statements that were base lies. No truths. When I finally was able with many others make multiple points about this and some even commented that what is wrong with an old man telling a few stories. I then asked, what is wrong with me or others telling stories about GM Atillo, it finally connected to them.

    So, GM Atillo should be listed in the Balintawak family and be under GM Bacon with GM Bacon as the Founder. If GM Atillo's Comments are taken at face value that he was the Supreme Grand Master and out ranked GM Bacon in his life time and it was his Father who created Balintawak or in another story it was him who created Balintawak, then he does not belong in the lineage with GM Bacon for Balintawak. He should be listed in his own separate list all by himself.

    So I understand I may have come across as a jerk to you in this. And that is ok. I ask if you are ever in the states let me know and if I can meet up with you we can talk. And I mean talk, nothing funny with talking with sticks. No showing who is who. Just sit down and talk about this and other FMA discussions.

    Also understand that I admit I reply in kind to people. So if they are jerkish and insulting I also reply the same way to get their attention and to get them to understand how they acting.

    As I stated before here and elsewhere We should all be able to succeed. State the truth or the truth as you know it. That way others can present it as they know it and people can present their side or information and then a discussion can be had. I have had similar discussions with those who trained a couple of seminars and camps with GM Taboada , They had some videos in some cases as well. they argued some points about Balintawak History. Nothing from the videos. I made my points and was contacted by GM Taboada's top guys in the states and we missed meeting each other a couple of times until this last summer. I enjoyed meeting him. It was a good event. The feedback I had was that he enjoyed meeting me and was happy to meet me. He was never upset with my points to others about stating the truth.

    Thank you if you got this far in your reading. It is more than I can expect if you think I am a jerk.

    Be at peace and train hard and I hope all succeed, I was just frustrated with Jon as it seemed his jerkishness to me and others I associate with not called for with his response.


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