Filipino Swords--Pictures.

Discussion in 'Misc. Sword Arts' started by arnisador, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. ThePepperskull

    ThePepperskull New Member

    And as an add on to my first post, I think the operative phrase when thinking about what TFW's swords are exactly, I'd classify them as "Functional reproductions". They work just fine, and look similar to what they're modeled after, but by virtue of where and how they're constructed, they're not entirely authentic pieces.

    It doesn't make them bad quality though, it just means that they're reproductions of the actual blades.
     
  2. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    soft steel vs. hard steel

    I understand what you mean and can offer the following analogy: when I used an axe a lot in Canada years ago I would sharpen mine every night with a bastard file. Sharpening was easy because of the low HRC scale of the old axe that I had at that time; the axe would also get very sharp very quickly. Now a-days I prefer to get things like old axes and old cooking knives, e.g. from eBay for the same reason: they take an edge quickly (although I have to sharpen them more frequently), and since I know how to use them correctly, the lower HRC doesn't bother me. The same kind of argument holds true for those who prefer a higher HRC, for different reasons, however.

    Best,

    Steve
     
  3. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    How right you are my friend. Not to mention the fact that the battle real blades have have a different HRC on specific parts of the blade. A softer metal overall with a tempered edge and point. When GM brings blades in from Negros, you can see the temper lines if you look closely. it is sometimes not apparent at first, due to the polishing. A lot of the older blades I have from Panay and Negros are folded too. Adding even more strength and flexability to the blade. Now that's true craftsmanship.

    The moral of the story is.............. SUPPORT YOUR REGIONAL PANDAY!


    It does cost more to get the real thing and it takes a lot longer too. But is well worth it!

    So far, Brian has the best reproduction I have seen. So close I thought it was an Ilonggo blade at first glance. Thumbs up!

    i will post a comparison photo as soon as I can get the IMG Code kick'in........... I just got the PIG Talibong last week. Hope to post it real soon too.
     
  4. davidtorez

    davidtorez New Member

    Mike,

    The folding of the steel in the forging process removes slag and impurities in the steel, and the layers of the steel that are seen are a by-product of this method. It does not add anymore strength and flexibility to the blade anymore than a monosteel carbon blade made by modern steel.

    Have a good one.

    David Torez
     
  5. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Wow, i would like to have some more discussion on this topic, I have always been told that the more layers you have, the better. So many paper thin layers that they eventually become unnoticeable is best. The more the folds, not as beautiful of course but the better the flexibility of the blade. Which keeps it from snapping during those much hated impacts. Wouldn't that be considered stronger? Especially since the blade rebounds to its original shape.
     
  6. davidtorez

    davidtorez New Member

    Hi Mike,

    When a steel is brittle, it is more prone to snapping than flexing. What mainly dictates how brittle a steel usually is, is the carbon content of the blade itself. The higher the carbon content, the more brittle the steel is. The folding pattern in the end products are only "better" aesthetically, and not from a performance standpoint. Mono steel blades which most modern swords are made from, start from a more pure steel with no impurities or slag, therefore not requiring the folding process. Putting it another way, I would much prefer to go to battle with a modern reproduction sword made from modern steel rather than a old antique which has been made in the old way. This is not to disparage the old methods, but we must remember that technology in metallurgy was not the same as it is now. There are always tradeoffs in this business. A blade with a higher carbon content will be stronger and hold an edge better, but be more prone to snapping, whilst a blade with lower carbon content will be softer, and more prone to bending, rather than snapping, but not hold an edge quite as well. As with most things in life, there are many more variables in this discussion such as blade geometry, single bevel / double bevel etc etc... So take this for what its worth.

    Have a good one.

    David Torez
     
  7. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Hi David and thanks for your post!

    I have to admit that I have not had much flight time with forging processes, but I was taught(not really taught but shown) three separate smiths, with one being in Sarawak. That having different levels of carbon are the key to a good blade. If the carbon level is consistent, wouldn't it actually be inferior? Limiting its performance? Don't we want a lower level of carbon through the body of the blade, keeping it from snapping and gradually tapering to higher carbon level the edge and point, to held a good cutting edge. Everyone here is posting about mono steel, the last thing I want in a blade. I know that it is hard to beet Vanadium alloys that are made to take long term punishment for something an axle. But alloys like that are not intended for holding an edge either. I had the chance to learn quite a bit about metalergy last semester, but none of the processes we covered really had anything to do with what I am interested in. Well, at least I do not ever plan on fighting with an ROV arm or a piece of angle iron anyway...... : )
     
  8. davidtorez

    davidtorez New Member

    Hi Mike,

    Without getting too deep into the discussion, as it is impossible to explain everything in a simple online post, a homogeneous carbon content in a mono steel is preferable for making a bladed weapon that will see serious use, i.e armour cutting etc. For cutting merely flesh and bone, almost any sword will be able to do that. The way the traditional Japanese swordsmiths used to make their blades, was to wrap a lower carbon content steel with a higher carbon content outer steel as it was thought to have made the blade more flexible. However modern metallurgists have proven that this is not the case.
    The temperline that is seen on all traditional Japanese swords and some Filipino swords comes from the edge of the blade cooling quicker than the rest of the blade, making it more brittle. Most Visayan blades are single bevelled anyway, which means they have more steel supporting the edge. As I said earlier, there are many variables in the production of swords. Ultimately it comes down to how well the thing is made, whether it be made traditionally or by modern means. Give a good metal to a poorly skilled swordsmith and the end product wont be so great, give a skilled swordsmith a crap piece of steel, and youll get something good. Give a skilled/experienced swordsmith a good piece of steel, and youll get the ultimate bladed weapon.

    Have a good one.

    David Torez
     
  9. ThePepperskull

    ThePepperskull New Member

    Yes, the folding process actually was used on steel with an uneven carbon distribution, with the intent to spread it more evenly and to remove impurities. The strength of a blade will depend on how it's forged.

    A lot of myths involving the forging process have been spread orally, even the people who make the swords may not fully understand and just fold their blades because that's the way it's been done for ages. With new monosteel, it's not required, but a lot of pandays do it out of habit and to keep the tradition going. I like that.

    As an interesting side note, my favourite traditional bladesmiths in general come from Indonesia. As an eskrima and a silat practitioner I've had experience with both weapons and find that Indonesia's weaponsmiths tend to make blades that hold their edge longer. Although, I hear wonders of iloilo's weapons and I collect both indonesian and filipino blades.

    I recently got a sansibar from Carigara. A cousin of mine went around the phillippines and picked one up for me. Great blade.
     
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

  11. ravi80k

    ravi80k New Member


    Thanks for the link, there are so much to read about. bookmarked.
    Just look at this collection. Marvelous :D

    [​IMG]
     
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Beautiful!
     

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