Filipino Swords--Pictures.

Discussion in 'Misc. Sword Arts' started by arnisador, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Spunjer

    Spunjer New Member


    hi guys. new here. long time lurker...

    rshawtx,
    are you familiar with this:

    Herbert W Krieger's The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armor of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum

    this is but a small sample of our heritage, which unfortunately, has been long forgotten. this was cataloged back in 1926 and tho it's not accurate nomenclature wise on the few sandatas, these are the real deal, collected from the not so distant Philippine-American War. i hate to say this, but to answer you inquiries in a single post, or even a single thread would be an insult to our ancestors pride and joy. a book was written in 1998 regarding the most popular moro swords namely the kris, barung, kampilan, pira, panabas, and bangkung. if you're familiar with the ever popular Weapons of Moroland plaque, you will see that the weapons mentioned are just six of myriad of weapons in that plaque. and we're talking that's just in Mindanao.

    here's your for-instance:
    here's his version of what he call a Kris:

    [​IMG]

    and here's the real deal (Sulu kris circa 1800's)

    [​IMG]


    i'm sure you can see the difference. to begin with, the guards are way off; the distinguishing tribal marks is missing; the asang-asang, or stirrup are/is missing; etc.
    to say that the blades are similar because they are both wavy and it flairs out towards the handle, well, so is this sword, which is indonesian:

    [​IMG]

    hope this helps.
     
  2. rshawtx

    rshawtx New Member

    That was a great post Spunger. No I am not familiar with that book. I will have to check that out when I visit my local library. My dad did have a "Weapons of Moroland" plaque that we had in ouy room growing up.

    The carte blanche statement I was refering to was the allusion that "all" the items were "wallhangers". Are they replicas of the real thing, yes. Are they all made in one place in the Philippines, definitely. Should Ron change the name to nicelymadecommercialgradefunctionalfilipinoweaponreplicas.com? It would probably not do so well. Its a business and we all can appreciate a certain level of marketing. But I think the original poster wanted something they could use and not break the bank as opposed to a high-priced antique. :)

    Like I said, I can only speak for the ones I am familiar with (i.e. the itak, golok and pinute). I confess I am not an expert on the kris and concede that the commercial nature of the blades do not reflect the exact detail a real/antique kris would have. We can all agree that this amount of detail would drive the price upward because of the man hours involved in such an endeavor. It would also be a one-of-a-kind and definitely not commercial. I for one wouldn't probably want to use something that would cost an arm and a leg for everyday use. My financial situation also wouldn't allow me to spend that much on a conversation piece. So I guess it boils down to how much you want to spend and what you want to do with it.

    I can see we have some experts on the site. This is what its all about... the free disemination of knowledge.
     
  3. Spunjer

    Spunjer New Member

    as an analogy, i love using the american handguns of yore as an example. can you imagine if i start selling replicas of the "gun that won the west" 1873 Colt Peacemaker with a little twist like say, make it a .22 cal instead of .45 and make it a 12 shooter instead of 6? i wonder what kind of feedback i would get from historians and gun aficionados, NRA and your typical Bubba for desecrating a legendary pistol. but wait, it's just a replica, ain't it? hey, if i put it next to an antique peacemaker, it's about the same size except for the minor detail like 12 shooter or .22 cal. and then, on top of that, lemme add some make believe story behind it like

    "this pistol was originally designed to stop the peyote induced incas that once terrorized the badlands of wyoming. the legendary Texas Rangers would pop 6 of those .22 cal slug on the face and the rest towards the body, rendering the crazed inca incapacitated, then the Ranger would cautiously approach the stunned inca and finish him off by holding the pistol by barrel and hitting the savage in the head with the wooden handle."

    i know i'd prolly get feathered and tarred and that's because the weapon is revered.

    in our case, not too many people knows about what our ancestors had. there are a few people nowadays who study these weapons, and tries to preserve the knowledge, in hope that it could be preserved and not lost in the mist of time. this is our gift to our children, and theirs as well. it might be silly to some people that are not serious about this, but as a filipino, there are a few things that we can be really proud of and call ang sariling atin, or our very own. for someone to desecrate these heirlooms, and spread false information just to make a few bucks in the expense of our heritage, to me is unacceptable. as mabagani put it:

    this is a free country and sure, you have every right to defend this seller, rshawtx, and that's fine, but i hope that you can also see from the people that study and preserved these treasures.



    IMHO, either you do it the right way, or you don't. there are other sites that stays true to form. as far as how much one wants to spend, it's not as bad as you think, price wise. you want a real conversation piece with the real history behind it? i can sell you the real deal: an antique (late 1800's)Tausug Kris with laminated blade(less scabbard) for what he's asking on one of his pseudo kris, or a WW2 Visayan Tenegre with scabbard at that same price :) as for everyday use, i have a turn of a century Panay Binangon that i got for a song from an antique store, and an old Barung in my car in case i have the sudden urge to pull over and cut a tree limb ;). again, a flea market special for $75.00
    these blades, the antiques are so well done, that i know some people and personally used some for cutting. fact.
     
  4. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

    I have a few I bought at a flea market I dont pay 75.oo but have paid 45.00 for a REALLY NICE KRIS, I have also barong/burung short and long I paid 40 a piece for. Ebay can be expensive, it depends on what a person wants. On ebay you cant feel or hold it and you could end up getting tin or copper. I have a blade from the site mentioned and it is way cool, and can be used for work.
     
  5. zelbone

    zelbone Guest


    That's funny because of the avatar for this forum section of the two crossed Ilongo swords were of two of my swords in a pic I posted on the vikingsword.com forum. It was obviously photoshopped so the swords were crossed. A few members here on this forum can verify that fact...they've actually handled those two swords.
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I'm double-checking now, but I'm pretty sure that we didn't manipulate the picture...it was found via web search and we believed it to be for free use. If it's your copyrighted work we will certainly replace it!

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  7. zelbone

    zelbone Guest


    I understand that by posting pictures on the internet (even for well meaning educational reasons) that there is a possibility that they may be downloaded by any number of people and used by them for whatever reasons they wish. They may be even photoshopped or used or taken out of context or misidentified. And most people that repost those pics don't credit the source of those pics. I can't count how many times I've seen pictures of my swords used to decorate or embelish FMA website, MySpace, Friendster, Facebook profiles, or used as examples in sword/martial arts forums...without my knowledge or permission. That is why I rarely post pics of any of my swords publicly anymore because of misuse. I do find it flattering that those people do appreciate my pics and my swords to use them as an example, but credit and permission should be obtained first. I wouldn't mind then. And unfortunately because of this, several other collectors (some of which are members of this forum) will rarely post pics publicly of their swords. It's sad because genuine examples of Filipino fighting swords are rarely posted when information is sought out about them. Instead crass commercial copies or tourist junk are posted...not the true swords that shaped FMA.

    What is worse is when swords of mine have been copied from the pictures and commericalized without fully understanding the sword itself. Several forum members here know what I'm talking about.
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    We'll replace the picture. Thanks for letting us know.

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin
     
  9. krock1092

    krock1092 New Member

    I am going to order a few of their blades and I showed the site to a neighbor who is from Baguio City and he smiled and said they were more like adaptations of original weapons. He was proud that these high quality weapons were being produced in the Philippines but he did say if I was looking for authentic reproductions I should look elsewhere.

    So I guess those sold by Traditional Filipino Weapons are designed to have a more commercial appeal to collectors. Nothing wrong with that, but this brings me to my question, does anyone know I can purchase replicas that are more true to original design and form?
     
  10. Spunjer

    Spunjer New Member

    Imua Kuntao,

    sounds like you found some great deal! but yeah, you just proved my point in that the average antique traditional filipino weapons, with enough diligence, in some case are cheaper than the replicas.
     
  11. zelbone

    zelbone Guest

    Why get the replica when you can get the real thing? Antiques aside, regional pandays still make their traditional swords. Most of the time they are made to order in the traditional manner and be made for a left or right handed user. You can still get a traditional ginunting made in Negros...just ask the DTS guys or PTK guys where they get theirs. And talibongs can still found in Negros and Panay. Sansibars are still made in the traditional manner in Leyte and pinutis and espadas can still be found all over Cebu. Practically anywhere in the Visayas traditional blades are still being made. Your masters in the Philippines to whatever system you study should be able to help you with this.
     
  12. zelbone

    zelbone Guest


    This is so true! Not only that, but they would be true to form and lend themselves better to the techniques derived from them. Plus they would have a more interesting history.
     
  13. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

  14. Malapitan

    Malapitan New Member

  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Ooh, the Combat Ginunting looks nice!
     
  16. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Hey Arnisador it is one really sweet blade! [​IMG]
     
  17. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    I am a major traditionalist and have to agree with Zelbone. If a blade is not made in its place of origin, it's NOT the real deal. I personally prefer the old style Ginunting, the "Binagon". GT can still get his hands on laminated blades, but they are getting harder to get every day. The Panday is just getting old and his siblings just cannot make them like the old man does. I hope people get a chance to get a blade or two that weighs 2 or 3 pounds that has some life to it and doesn't feel like a dead hunk of steel. Before it's too late. I think it's worth the extra cash and wait time to get great blades to keep the art alive. or Sandata will continue to be degraded and eventually become just as trashy as the fantasy blades mass produced in China and Pakistan. It may have already happened.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Did you give yourself a new sword(s) for Christmas, Mr. Snow? :D
     
  19. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Yes, but I couldn't wait until Christmas to open it Dr. Dumogero. I will send you a photo of it right now. But I also did the right thing and spent all of my cash on my family & girlfriend. So I was not able get my self a blades for pre, during and post Christmas gifts.
     
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Dude, looks nice!
     

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