filipino fighting secrets live blog - empty hand

Discussion in 'General' started by THEKUNTAWMAN, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. THEKUNTAWMAN

    THEKUNTAWMAN New Member

    and yes, Eskrima is a empty hands art. its just that modern Eskrimadors are trying to make it into an art that has everything. ad this is why we have weak empty hands, and weak skills at other weapons, where all they are really doing is playing a game called "oh we have that too". this is killing the FMA man--if he knew himself and has pride in the art as it is, he would be happy to say our art is a weapons art. but movies and seminar masters have made the FMA man think his art has to "look" authentic, "look" southeast Asian, "look" "complete" with staff, sword, knives, whips, blow guns and empty hands--even though what his grandmaster really knew how to do best was use a stick and a knife.
     
  2. swordexperiment

    swordexperiment New Member





    I agree with a lot of the things you said, but doesnt eskrima have everything in it? It has weapons like swords and sticks and does empty hands against empty hands like YOU said, so what's wrong with trying to make eskrima a martial art that has everything in it?
     
  3. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    Sorry for the late reply, but I feel that we are going in circles here. I think it would be much better if I ask specifically how/what you view these arts as, and I was wondering where you teach at so maybe one day I can visit to see how you "use" fma empty hands and how well it fares against other striking arts like western boxing, muay thai and silat.

    I see that you view eskrima as an empty hands art, but a weapons art at the same time, like silat or muay boran I guess. But, what is your view on how well eskima empty hands/panauntukan is against other striking arts and how it good it is against those arts when using guntings, limb destructions, defanging the snake and if training with sticks and knives does somehow help you in unarmed fighting/training. I have practiced eskrima for a couple of months. I personally do think it works with empty hands, as kali/eskrima has increased my game in boxing and grappling. The ONLY reason why I don't practice it anymore is because the local school shut down and the only other good schools that teach kali is at the insanatao academy but thats pretty far where I live.
     
  4. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    I wonder, do you even practice kali eskrima? seems like your hating on something you clearly how no full knowledge about.
     
  5. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    Also, I would like to add that I 100% agree with you when said that Eskrimadors should fight against other non fma practioners with or without weapons. Kali tudo does that but I feel that they emphasize more on ground fighting than anything else, even the rules seem to give ground fighting more of the edge in their tournaments.
     
  6. THEKUNTAWMAN

    THEKUNTAWMAN New Member

    i made a mistake in that post. I do not consider Eskrima a empty hands art, just like I dont consider kobudo and fencing empty hand arts. we have this thing in the FMA where we have to act like we know everything and we do everything well--and the truth is, most of us just don't. do you know empty hand techniques, yes. but it is not the specialty unless you have something else. this is why most Eskrimadors do empty hands only on pads and in drills, but they claim the art is "too deadly" to spar or compete with. as if we are only fighting with live blades and fully unpadded sticks. I consider Eskrima a weapons art, because this is what we do best--but it does not mean I dont recognize Eskrima empty hands as legitimate, just the way people are doing them makes them impractical.

    if you would like to come by and see what we do, I am in Sacramento, CA and our door is always open. being the way that I am, talking the way that I talk, and being as unpopular as I am, I am no stranger to being challenged and questioned. but I'm not posting youtube clips, my challengers have to do it like a real man, in person. i have had many challenges, but only a few in person. I'm not hard to find at all.

    yes, I know Eskrima very well. I wouldn't talk like this if I didn't. and I always say this, in my experience, this is what I have seen and experienced. no one has proven me in person to be wrong, so until I am proven wrong--this opinion will always come out my mouth.

    Eskrimadors, if they took their empty hand Eskrima to other non-FMA people, they will most likely come up with the same conclusions I did. but since they don't, I will always have people talking smack on the internet and in the safety of schools in the cities I teach in. I back up everything I say.
     
  7. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    " I do not consider Eskrima a empty hands art,.."

    I am now officially confused. if you don't view eskrima as a empty hand art, but still think eskrima empty hands is legitimate????

    I am very very confused by what your trying to say here, let me just ask to get a clear answer from you, do you believe that eskrima is good when it comes to fighting WITHOUT weapons just as it is with weapons compared to pencak silat that emphasizes BOTH WEAPONS AND EMPTY HANDS?

    I mean, I don't know if you have realized it or not, but you single handedly proved all those rants and statements that @swordexperiment was making right, whether you like it or not.



    " I consider Eskrima a weapons art, because this is what we do best--but it does not mean I dont recognize Eskrima empty hands as legitimate, just the way people are doing them makes them impractical."

    You claim that eskrima is a fencing art and then you say it does have empty hands.............your making me feel that eskrima is a joke, not that it is, just that is almost like your re-wording what @swordexperiment says.
     
  8. THEKUNTAWMAN

    THEKUNTAWMAN New Member

    No I do not feel that the empty hands most Eskrimadors are using is effective. And it's not the techniques most people do, it's the way they do it. It's like the so-called boxing FMA folks do. The techniques they do are effective, but they are not effective in the way they are being used. A boxer looking at the way a poor boxer is moving can tell if that guy can fight. Now if the guy gets mad that the boxer doubts his skill, that is no reason to get upset--he can prove his case very easily.

    I have seen, trained with, and sparred with many Silat players. They are not equal. Some are good with both (I'm talking about fighting). Most I have met are not. But I have met more Silat people who can fight, than I have met Eskrimadors who can fight. I do not consider drills fighting. When I say "fight", I am talking about actually fighting, whether sparring, full contact fighting or whatever.

    now a question for you. Have you ever seen an a Eskrimador fight a non-Eskrima fighter, empty handed? I haven't. As much as FMA people hate my blog and my philosophy, I never even had an Eskrimador come and fight ME empty handed. So as long as we have this, FMA Eskrima empty hands will only be good for seminars and YouTube clips...
     
  9. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    ...so wait, you DO BELIEVE ESKRIMA EMPTY HANDS IS EFFECTIVE, just not the way you see most eskrimadors do it? Then why do you call it a weapons art only when you do believe that eskrima empty hands by itself is effective, just not the way people do it?
     
  10. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    ' have seen, trained with, and sparred with many Silat players. They are not equal. Some are good with both (I'm talking about fighting). Most I have met are not.

    well then I don't really get it, eskrimadors say that weapons can translate to empty hands and increases your game in empty hands. Is it not best for me or anyone to learn eskrima for its weapons AND its empty hands? If you believe eskrima has effective empty hand techniques, then what do you think of transitioning from weapon to empty hands, what do you believe/suggest is the way eskrimadors should train? Was the WHOLE Philippines lying when the inhabitans said that learning weapons first can increase your empty hand skills after a certain amount of time with weapons? If not, do we switch the process like most martial arts? like go from empty hands first THEN weapons like silat?

    Also, what about panantukan which is an unarmed componet of kali? Isn't eskrima empty hands and panantukan/dumog the same thing, just with different names?
     
  11. THEKUNTAWMAN

    THEKUNTAWMAN New Member

    Of course, I have always said those things can and do work, just not the way people do them. And that whole "everything translates from the the stick/knife/empty hand" is a new invention. The only people who say that are people who read American martial arts media. It's not true--movements are similar but they are unrelated. That's like saying if you run you can play soccer or if you walk you can play golf.

    I dont believe the the old masters said learn the weapons you can do empty hands--that is also a new innovation beginning with Dan Inosanto writings she adopted by those who came later. The statement is just untrue, and it wasn't done in the Philippines. Boxers do not get better after learning Eskrima, period.

    And I stick by my statement: Eskrima is a weapons art. People can add stuff to it, the can translate it into whatever, but it is a weapons art. That "empty hand" Arnis, while somewhat practical, is a new innovation and one the reason it is not very effective is because people are not taking it through the process all martial arts styles must go to become a solid art... It is taught in seminars, has no structure, no element of competition, no development other than adding cool-looking crap to it.

    Go back 100 years, most of that stuff wasn't here, no matter what your grandmasters try to call it.
     
  12. THEKUNTAWMAN

    THEKUNTAWMAN New Member

    And Pinuti, your way of dealing with our discussion is all wrong. You are trying to engage in a battle of words. The only way to test or disprove what I am saying is exactly the way most FMA guys don't want to: one on one, with an opponent, whatever the rules might be--proven to you and your experience. I got mine; go get yours. This is why I say I am tired of forums. We engage more in forums than we do in contests. Name one FMA tournament that puts FMA against others beside the Dog Brothers. There are none.
     
  13. swordexperiment

    swordexperiment New Member






    that is quite sad, if there is no such thing as eskrima empty hands, and this whole time eskrima is a fencing art, then it just shows that fma in general is behind te curb of other complete martial arts like Silat, Turkish wrestling and Krav Maga.
     
  14. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    Sorry for late response, but whanever I actually spar with someone, I always end up using bjj, judo, boxing and wrestling skills, because I'm more well trained in those rather than kali empty hands or in kali for that matter. I only came to get a better understanding of what fma (eskrima, kali and arnis) is all about.

    Let me ask you because you know the art and its history better than I do, what is fma? Is it really Filipino? if the stick to empty hands is a recent innovation, how did eskrimadors practice unarmed martial arts to when with out a weapon and what were they called? were fighting systems like panantukan their own martial art which was practiced by the Filipinos? I don't quite understand the history and what eskrima or fma is all about when compared to martial arts like silat or jujittsu?
     
  15. MacJ_007

    MacJ_007 Junior Member

    Hi, PM me the address of your location and I'll gladly drop by when I am in your area. I was in Elk Grove a couple of days ago, should've seen this post earlier. Thanks.
     
  16. Pinuti

    Pinuti New Member

    You talk about eskrima empty hands but not fma empty hands. What i'm reffering to are the unarmed martial arts of the Philippiens that has nothing to do with eskrima, such as sikaran and suntukan
     
  17. Christopher Ligot

    Christopher Ligot New Member

    [video=youtube;LhO4BC7NyhQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhO4BC7NyhQ[/video]

    If you watch the video, you will understand the empty hand better....

    1) It was designed for you to buy some time to get to your weapon or improvised weapon
    2) the empty hand was designed in a society where blade culture is prevalent... obviously, when fighting someone in the streets, you don't want to do BJJ against him because he might be hiding a knife in his pocket...
     

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