Empty hands

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by MTH, Dec 22, 2006.

  1. MTH

    MTH New Member

    balintawak empty hand looks like a kind of wing chun chi-sao, but i think its quite different.
    what are the main differences?
     
  2. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Are both sentences yours? or did you copy it from someone else trying to ask a follow up question?

    Thanks
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I've heard both that Balintawak does and does not have an empty-hands curriculum.
     
  4. samson818

    samson818 New Member

    I think it depends on what group you train with.
    Some emphasize EH, some dont train it at all.

    I know some of the Balintawak groups in PI incorporated Tat Kun Tao, especially those affiliated with Joe Go.

    Balintawak stick training (as well as most other FMA's) can easily be translated into EH training.
    Check out youtube and search for Bobby Tabimina's or Nick Elizar's EH palakaw clips.

    Hope that answers you question.
     
  5. MTH

    MTH New Member

    no, they are not.

    I asked because I trained wing chun for a long time and I lately saw one Balintawak-clip training empty hands. In my opinion it was quite similar to chi-sao. Perhaps only different strategies.
    Therefore my question.

    @samson
    Thank you for your reply. I´ll check out for the clips.

    Merry x-mas to all.

    Bye
     
  6. Pike

    Pike New Member

    HI MTH[​IMG]

    I also trained for a length of time in wing chun and see what you see
    things all are very similar:[​IMG]

    They are many martial arts drills that are very simliar in principal
    but Balintawak adheres to power of structure at all times
    (either for the destruction of opponent structure
    or for power to deliver ones own) either with weapons or empty hands
    most students of Balintawak at an early stage are introduced to empty hand side of the art and are very happy with the results [​IMG]

    Best Regards and all the best for the new year[​IMG]

    Pike
     
  7. samson818

    samson818 New Member

    I dont think Wing Chun and Balintawak are that similar.
    They may have similar hand movements, as many close quarter styles do, but their structure and frames are completely different.
     
  8. teovel'sBalintawak

    teovel'sBalintawak New Member

    They are many martial arts drills that are very simliar in principal
    but Balintawak adheres to power of structure at all times
    (either for the destruction of opponent structure
    or for power to deliver ones own) either with weapons or empty hands
    most students of Balintawak at an early stage are introduced to empty hand side of the art and are very happy with the results [​IMG]

    Balintawak trademarks are speed,timing,sensitivity and accuracy first before using power. These are the words of wisdom I heard from the Velez brothers and I think even other Balintawak lineages have the same concept. A 5 feet 2 inches guy that weights about 110 pounds will have a hardtime knocking out a 6 feet 2 inches 250 pound dude with a single power shot unless he hit the vital parts.
     
  9. teovel'sBalintawak

    teovel'sBalintawak New Member

    Balintawak trademarks are speed,timing,sensitivity and accuracy first before using power. These are the words of wisdom I heard from the Velez brothers and I think even other Balintawak lineages have the same concept. A 5 feet 2 inches guy that weights about 110 pounds will have a hardtime knocking out a 6 feet 2 inches 250 pound dude with a single power shot unless he hit the vital parts.
     
  10. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Some have it in the curriculum officialy while others state it comes from the principals of the stick so you already know it, just use it and or practice it.
     
  11. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    MTH,

    I can see where one might see similarities. Balintawak teaches the use of both hands at the same time with the proper body mechanics. Wing Chun does something similiar as well.

    I think Wing Chun even adds in the third motion sometimes with the leg, which would only be done in Balintawak (* from my experience *) if it was a natrual movement for balance and or body mechanics.
     
  12. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    From Manong Ted Buot's teachings:
    In no particular order as they are all required.

    Proper Body Mechanics for the technique
    Sensitivity
    Timing

    The power comes from being on time with the proper body bechanics. It is not strength.

    Speed is not taught for us, it is how does one handle timing without going faster or balistic at the beginning / learning stages. Later one is able to use their timing at any speed, to meet their opponent. Not using faster speed, but better timing to beat the opponent.

    I know subtle differences, but very similiar. :)
     
  13. MacJ_007

    MacJ_007 Junior Member

    This is what Tatay Anciong said about the Empty Hand. He said, "If you are superior in the sticks, then you are far more superior in bare hands." But there is catch to it. Tatay Anciong also said, "If you understand it." Meaning Empty Hand is part of Balintawak. Bare Hands is a higher form of Balintawak. Some approach in Balintawak can only be achieved if you trained with the stick. The stick is not the weapon, it is only a training tool to get the necessary reaction needed to be achieved by the body. The ultimate weapon is YOURSELF, your REFLEX, your REACTION.
     
  14. Pike

    Pike New Member

    So few words they can say so much [​IMG]

    Absolutely spot on in my book [​IMG]

    happy new year [​IMG]

    Pike
     
  15. samson818

    samson818 New Member

    Mr. Parsons,

    I really appreciate your approach (as well as Manog Ted's) on timing, but I do think speed is still very important.

    I think speed and timing exist in a harmonious relationship.
    If your timing is correct, but your body is not physically fast enough to react, then your said timing is useless.
    Much like catching a baseball. You can time its descent, but if you cant move fast enough to the correct spot, then you cant catch it.

    Power is also not a bad attribute to have either.
    I know plenty of guys who lack timing and sensitivity, but have loads of raw power and speed.
    They can take most trained guys out with or without a stick.
    These factors should not be overlooked or undertrained especially when young.

    That being said, timing and sensitivity are attributes that can be trained well past your prime.
    The learning curve is just much greater.
     
  16. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Samson818,

    I understand your point. I think that some loose something if they only try to get faster, they may go balistic. They are too committed and are not able to abort on time if required. If one trains slowly and learns the timing then they can then move up in speed and work on speed. Maybe that is the way I should have explained.
     
  17. samson818

    samson818 New Member

    I very much agree with your post kind sir.
    Timing is crucial, as are many other elements for combat.
    Hopefully I can meet you and Manong Ted someday.
    My buddy Eugene speaks very highly of you, your group, and Manong Ted.
     
  18. northstorm

    northstorm New Member

    At PKS we have incorporated one aspect of Balintawak into our weapon and empty hand training. When the opponent checks your hand or weapon, Baltiniwak grabs that checking hand and pulls the opponent off balance setting them up for an immediate attack. Just a small thing, but very effective.

    Chaplain Tom
     
  19. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Sounds a bit like WIng Chun style trapping!
     
  20. armas

    armas Junior Member

    The way we have been trained in Tabimina Balintawak all attributes of Speed, power,Balance, Sensitivity and Control is put together in synch with all your training. As you train you learn that these traits or attributes will help you respond to the attack or feeding given to you. As your instructor provokes you to respond without thinking(Zero Mind). If one can synchronize his movements with his attacker then you can develop all the above traits in unity with your movements. It is something you feel when there is a good stimulus feeding the student. IT becomes holistic.
     

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