Effectivness of unarmed combat in eskrima/kali/arnis empty hands

Discussion in 'General' started by swordexperiment, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. swordexperiment

    swordexperiment New Member

    There's one thing that many Eskrimadors, arnisadors, etc hesitate to answer. Its how well can kali/eskrima empty hands by itself get you prepared in a fight where you have no access to a weapon other than your own body (fists, feet etc).

    http://filipinofightingsecretslive.com/2009/08/26/the-fallacy-of-empty-handed-fma/




    I ask this question because it seems a lot of eskrimadores resort to other martial arts when it comes to empty hands. Look, you dont see a lot of people try to do fencing, krav maga or kendo to compensate kali, if anything its the other way around. They train kali to compensate other weapon martial arts because its just that good with weapons. Its been said that kali is a complete martial art, but how well refined is it in areas such as empty hands, and dealing with weapons of long ranges (spear, staff etc).


    http://filipinofightingsecretslive.com/2009/08/26/the-fallacy-of-empty-handed-fma/


    I have no doubt the fma one of the best weapons martial art or if not, THE best weapons martial art in the world when it comes to using bolos, knives, sticks, kalis etc Although it might be at a disadvantage against a spear or staff..point is my concern is how kali empty hands deals in a fist fight against someone who is skilled in unarmed fighting in whatever martial art they are in.



    "There will be many times where a warrior will be unarmed"-Anonymous yaw yan practioner
     
  2. jspeedy

    jspeedy Member

    What you are missing is that you are comparing a specialty (boxing/MT) of one system to a component of another (FMA). Of course a specialist will 9/10 times win in this scenario (fighting a non specialist in his own specialty). FMA empty hands gives you options besides curl up and die if you are caught without a weapon. Here's an example i trained at an aikijujutsu school for a time, the main focus was wrist locks and small joint manipulation, but they also incorporated judo, grappling, karate, and kendo. We had components of many systems but were not going to out through a judoka, or out kendo? A kendo guy. The emphasis was wrist locks and grabs that was the specially, which imo had limited applicability but that's another thread. My point, you're not going to walk into a ring and beat a boxer without boxing experience. If that were possible I'm sure you'd see other arts do it.
     
  3. swordexperiment

    swordexperiment New Member

    I think I lack detail when I was comparing kali to boxing, that is my fault. I don't really expect an eskrimador to just walk in the boxing championships and take the world title in heavy weight, welterweight or even fly weight. I"m just comparing how much emphasis kali/eskrima has on empty hand striking against someone with or with out a weapon.
    I know that it "depends on how you train" but I'm trying to figure out how much emphasis it has in empty hands compared to other unarmed martial arts. For example: jujutsu focuses on empty hands a lot at first but then proceeds to do weapon after wards, but doesn't put a lot of emphasis on weapons which is why its not a very good choice to take compared to eskrima in terms of learning weapon combat. I fear that the same might be said for kali. FMA is said to be a complete martial art, but even though it covers almost all areas, my other question is how well it does in those areas traditionally.

    http://filipinofightingsecretslive.com/2013/06/01/does-eskrima-need-to-be-well-rounded/




    here is an article on why eskrima doesn't need to take other things from martial arts and why I feel that systems like modern arnis deludes our martial arts just how thailand people feel that western boxing deludes muay Thai/muay boran from is cultural and unique aspect as a thailand martial art. fma is a big part of filipino culture, take or replace what makes it Filipino and you take away a piece of their culture with it.


    "You can wipe out an entire generation, you can burn their homes to the ground, and somehow they’ll still find their way back. But if you destroy their history, you destroy their achievements, then it’s as if they never existed. That’s what people like the Spanish and the americans wanted wanted, and that’s exactly what my people have been fighting for."
    -Anonymous eskrimador
     
  4. jspeedy

    jspeedy Member

    Like said in the other thread the blog makes some good points. I don't agree that empty hand dilutes the art, Filipinis used their empty hand art in the PI and this is documented. The guy who writes the blog comes off as contradictory to me, talks about authenticity but creates his own system, he bitches about FMA not gaining popularity because it was originally marketed as an accessory art but he teaches FMA as an accessory to kung fu. He's like all the hipster kids that suddenly hate their little band that "made it big and sold out". He talks about authentic terminology or lack there of and the value of culture but criticizes people who wear Filipino clothing and play drums But it's his blog so whatever, he can say what he wants.
     
  5. swordexperiment

    swordexperiment New Member

    Right, but now we got a better understanding of where I'm coming from, I personally am trying to get kali empty hands more well known. Too many times have I seen someone incorporate foreign arts to our empty hands which is why I feel the need to question how effective is kali empty hands by itself


    I"m just comparing how much emphasis kali/eskrima has on empty hand striking against someone with or with out a weapon.
    I know that it "depends on how you train" but I'm trying to figure out how much emphasis it has in empty hands compared to other unarmed martial arts. For example: jujutsu focuses on empty hands a lot at first but then proceeds to do weapon after wards, but doesn't put a lot of emphasis on weapons which is why its not a very good choice to take compared to eskrima in terms of learning weapon combat. I fear that the same might be said for kali. FMA is said to be a complete martial art, but even though it covers almost all areas, my other question is how well it does in those areas traditionally.
     

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