Double Stick Progression

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by SuperToe, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. SuperToe

    SuperToe Member

    In Pekiti Tirsia

    What progression do you follow

    dirty Dozen, 12 Double stick drills then what after..

    I have a few of the warm ups, and about 11 of the double stick patterns, (The butterfly I don't really have.)


    mp
     
  2. SuperToe

    SuperToe Member

    Diagram

    Does Anyone know where to find the "Origins of 64 Attacks diagram"
    mentioned at www.pt-go.com in The Article section??


    Matt
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    What is the "dirty dozen" drill?
     
  4. Epa

    Epa Member

    The dirty dozen are a set of 12 double stick wrist conditioning drills. As I recall there are four subsets each containing three drills: Witik set (like abanicos), Energy set (not sure I can describe it well), a set that starts with a sword drawing motion, and a santican set (where you hit your own stick). I don't know if my terminology is accurate, but that's the basic idea.

    I think the drills are really good for grip and wrist conditioning and they include some basic footwork so they can be pretty aerobic. They're good for a warm up or a cool down. They also made my witik strikes a lot harder.
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Ah, OK! I think I get the idea--a specified twirling set intended for conditioning.
     
  6. blindside

    blindside student

    I haven't seen a fixed dirty dozen, seems like several different instructors have different "dozens," lots of overlap between the different versions though.

    Lamont
     
  7. Chris Wiggins

    Chris Wiggins New Member

    There is only one "dirty dozen".
    3 Witiks
    3 Slashes
    3 Power
    3 Santikans

    50-100 reps per set (600-1200 reps). This along with the footwork drills is more foundation than most players have (or ever will have). Tim works the "dozen" like no one else, and there is no way for me to describe it here. You have to "feel" it. Get thee to a seminar, and ask Tim to run it as a warm up. If you don't have "hands like a monkey" you will need tape. Good luck.
    as a follow up; after that X attacks and single fluid/double fluid. Remember you probably aren't going to use something like upper 6 in a fight. You have to be able to use each stick independently.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2007
  8. Chris Wiggins

    Chris Wiggins New Member

    Actually, I wrote "3 Power". Should have been 3 Energy.
     
  9. SuperToe

    SuperToe Member

    Double Stick Dirty dozen

    Reverse 1
    Reverse 2
    Reverse 3
    Reverse 4
    5 thrust
    Double Twirt
    Santican a, b, c, d
    8 thrust
    9 thrust
    Witiks a, b, c
    double slashs
    jabbing

    MP
     
  10. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    Like others, what i've heard called the the "dirty dozen" has been a set of conditioning drills that put together will constitute a fairly full-body workout. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Conrado Tortal didn't come up with the nickname, so it's probably not essential to the art's progression that any one set of conditioning drills get a clever nickname from a popular war movie.
     
  11. There have been many double stick drills that I have learned over the years from Grand Tuhon Gaje. The 12 mentioned by Super Toe were shown to me by Bill McGrath. They were not the 12 from the doce methodos but warm up and conditioning drills to enable better manipulation of the sticks. These are partnered with drills to improve them further.

    The 12 from the doce methodos are a progression from simple to more complex with drills to learn basic and them more advanced applications.

    The advanced levels are contradas and recontras.
     
  12. SuperToe

    SuperToe Member

    Dirty Dozen

    I love to practice those 12.

    I find its something I can practice on my own, I still find some of them pretty tuff!!

    My Goal is to practice The Witik drills until my forearms are twice the size of Tuhon Gelinas!! (Ill be a really Skinny Popeye!) haha.

    Great Stuff!!

    MP
     
  13. Tim Waid

    Tim Waid -== Banned ==-

    An interesting, albeit worthless comment.

    The "Dirty Dozen" Double Stick Conditioning Drills are just that, 12 striking and conditioning drills that I guarantee, if performed 100 repetitions each nonstop, with proper form and power at least 5 times a week, will condition your hands enough to stand one of our 10 day training camps with Grand Tuhon Gaje in the Philippines. Consider that with the fact that the majority break out the tape by morning of day 1.

    3 Witiks - Vertical/Horizontal low/Horizontal high - Complete shoulder (side/front/rear) conditioning workout that will also give you the power to knockout (top of the head - Grand Tuhon Gaje has done this). Broken footwork.

    3 Strikes - Horizontal Witik/Diagonal Slash/Overhead Slash - All executed from the extreme close-quarters Drawing chamber - all foundation signature strikes executed with side-stepping footwork. If you can't do these then you are not Pekiti-Tirsia.

    3 Energy - Vertical Pull/Diagonal Pull/Downward Drop - Executed with Reverse Triangle/Leg-parry footwork. Unique power and conditioning drills that balance out the development of the rear delts and lats. Downward drop is a shoulder shrug movement executed with a type of broken/skipping footwork. Excellent upper-lower body conditioning.

    3 Santikans - Circular/Circular with Witiks/Circular with Deflection and Witik - Double Stick contact drills that develop control of the Santikan to an immediate strike. If you master these you will not have any problem coordinating the later X-Attacks (Closed/Open/Reverse).

    With the exception of a couple of variations of the Santikan, which there are many, these are "the" Doble Baston/Kalis "Dirty Dozen" conditioning drills that I have seen Grand Tuhon Gaje teach consistently for the past 20 years. Needless to say there are others he has taught, and almost any of the Doble attacks from the system can be repetitiously drilled for conditioning. Yet, these 12 were certainly formulated in this order for the specific purpose of providing a solid foundation of conditioning, muscular endurance, power, control, and striking mechanics with footwork coordination.

    You will be better if you train the Dirty Dozen as described above.

    Caution: One should thoroughly warm-up the wrist and forearms with circulars and half-range witiks before beginning this workout. It is very easy to sprain your wrist if you begin the Witik set with full power and range of motion without proper warm-up.

    Tim Waid
    www.pt-go.com
     
  14. abdon

    abdon New Member

    Thank you very much for the clarification Mr. Waid!!
    I will incorporate these drills into my training as soon as possible.
    Just one humble request...would there be any way of seeing these drills in a video format? Perhaps on YouTube? I only ask because I saw your recent videos on Tirsia Corto Break-in/Break-out on YouTube and they were VERY helpful to me!
    Again, I thank you very much for the clarification!!!!

    Abdon
     
  15. Hector

    Hector New Member

    Mr. Waid,

    Thank you for your explanation of the Dirty Dozen. Does the weight of the sticks make a big difference? By the way, I've heard some real horror stories about your 10 day camps (and I mean that in a good way!)

    Hope to read more of your posts here in the future.

    Hector
     
  16. Chris Wiggins

    Chris Wiggins New Member

    Oh, it's horrible alright. The best rum in the world, beautiful women, great weather, stunning beaches.............oh, and there's training, yeah that's ok too.
     
  17. Tim Waid

    Tim Waid -== Banned ==-

    To answer the question on the weight of sticks, and the tendonitis issue from the other thread:

    The rattan Baston is a lethal instrument. Sharpen the tip to a point and burn it, and you have a weapon capable of engaging the blade, taking the eyes out, and delivering the fatal thrust.

    Your rattan should be chosen with the same attention to detail as choosing a custom blade. For perfect balance the length should be from armpit to fingertip, although you can effectively go one or two inches longer. Diameter should be just large enough to allow a full grip where the fingertips fully touch the palm. This ensures you have full control and retention of the baston. The weight and density should be of a medium value, not too light or it will not hold up to full contact, nor too heavy or you will:

    1. Eventually suffer some type of sprain or tendonitis of the shoulder, elbow or wrist.

    2. Experience being hit by your opponent, repeatedly, because you are behind in timing, because you cannot at least equal your opponents strikes to protect yourself, ALL because you are using too heavy of a weapon.

    Follow the teaching of Grand Tuhon Gaje. STP-AP:

    First is always Speed. With speed you can equal the Timing of your opponent, and then hit them with a faster strike ahead of Timing. Speed plus Timing - perfect coordination of striking, footwork, and full body mechanics equals Power. Accuracy and Precision are accomplished through full control and manipulation of the weapon. Difficult to do when one follows the advice to "use a larger and heavier rattan stick to hit harder". It doesn't matter how hard you can hit if you can't hit first. Period.

    Using heavier rattan or hardwood, and steel pipe, is an effective training tool and method. But should be used sparingly and only after a thorough warm-up to prevent the injuries stated above. For fighting, choose your rattan wisely that will enable you to execute successful striking and engagement of your opponent(s), with the attributes taught by Grand Tuhon Gaje.

    If you do end up with an injury, you probably should stop training long enough to allow the healing process to begin, and then begin a conditioning and strengthening program. Nothing better than the Dirty Dozen, which will fully condition your shoulders, elbows, forearms, and wrists. I also execute several variations of pushups and pullups, especially close/diamond pushups for the elbows. You may also want to consider a free weight supplemental training program as well, but don't forget that muscular endurance is more important than static strength in our game.

    Tim Waid
    www.pt-go.com
     
  18. selfcritical

    selfcritical New Member

    Oh ok. I've done these in sets before but hadn't heard them by that name. I'll try replacing my normal thousand strike daily quota with this and see what results I net.

    Also, unless your goal is to actively get people to not listen when you're going over your (completely valid and helpful) technical information, throwing in prefaces like that first sentence are going to be counterproductive.
     
  19. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    /me votes for a video of the Dirty Dozen ;)
     
  20. kswei

    kswei New Member

    ya..anyone do a simple video, we do did ours dozen, but tim mentioned about about the steps./footwork. just afraid we may do the wrong steps.. really appreciate some videos with proper footwork..or could be I did not pay good attention during my class... thanks.. we truly need the sifu or master to show the warmup drill.
    ..

    3 Strikes - Horizontal Witik/Diagonal Slash/Overhead Slash - All executed from the extreme close-quarters Drawing chamber - all foundation signature strikes executed with side-stepping footwork. If you can't do these then you are not Pekiti-Tirsia.

    3 Energy - Vertical Pull/Diagonal Pull/Downward Drop - Executed with Reverse Triangle/Leg-parry footwork. Unique power and conditioning drills that balance out the development of the rear delts and lats. Downward drop is a shoulder shrug movement executed with a type of broken/skipping footwork. Excellent upper-lower body conditioning.
     

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