Dog brothers training

Discussion in 'Dog Brothers Martial Arts' started by The Phalanx, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    For some of you who know about DBMA, you would know that they base their style in FMA yet incorporate a lot of what is useful from other arts like Muay Thai and Krabi Krabong...

    So you won't be seeing much carenzas or knife dances in DBMA but just training on fighting...

    Do you think that DBMA training is practical and useful in the streets? Do you agree with incorporating other bladed arts that's not FMA and H2H arts into their system?

    I've seen methods where you can deliver a strike using an FMA method then following it with a Krabi Krabong or Muay Thai strike... As well as countless more techniques blending different arts...

    What are your takes?
     
  2. krugman

    krugman New Member

    Dog Brothers

    I havent seen much of their empty hand stuff,I'm sure it would be practical,they dont seem like folks who would spend any time on anything that they thought didnt work...if you are familiar with anything they do re empty hands can you enlighten us?
     
  3. Crutch

    Crutch New Member

  4. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    I've heard mixed reviews on the Kali Tudo, but it looks pretty interesting to me.
     
  5. The thing to realize about DBMA is that, although there are certain markers that seem to identify it, there is no one recipe that puts it all together. Every practitioner has to be left free to decide his or her own training path. There are some fighters who have never done any formal training but who are just piecing it together bit by bit.

    I believe the t-shirt reads something like "smuggling concepts over the frontiers of style". That is pretty self evident about the intent. All that said, people would tend to gravitate towards what works most of the time for most of the fighters. High percentage stuff.
     
  6. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Yes, pretty much using what works for the individual... A lot of the more traditional practitioners do not like that idea for many reasons... I have even heard of one person saying that DBMA has no base to work on... Which I totally disagree with... DBMA is always evolving, nothing is written in stone... Which I personally think is how MA should be... I believe in it and Bruce Lee believed in it...
     
  7. The problem with the Bruce Lee model is that he died before anyone could see that it was just a training model and not a system of movements.

    Now it has become something akin to a religion with it's own set of teachings that must be adhered to before you ascent to the mountain etc.

    DBMA will probably go through several evolutions as different fighters take center stage and affect the group with their ideas and fighting skills. That is probably what will help it grow and expand as well.

    The advent of BJJ in the USA and the Gracie invasion affected the first proponents of DBMA's training to improve defences (and attacks) on the ground. Marc Denny first trained with the Machados and later introduced Eric Knaus. Krabi Krabong training was pursued by Arlen Sanford because he did not have ready access to a BJJ instructor in those days and wanted to have a capable defense against it. Look how both have affected the evolution of DBMA.
     
  8. Sisco T.

    Sisco T. New Member

    i like guro marc's kali tudo material alot. the thing about the kali tudo stuff is you have to spar it. if you're able to do that you can see just how valuable the training is; the trigg material, the zirconia, etc. i'm FAR from a guy who spars often, and when i do spar it's not often sparring HARD, but when i do spar (light or hard) i have game. if you integarte the kali tudo stuff with your boxing/kickboxing/striking game you'll be surprised at the people you surprise.

    Francisco
     
  9. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Woof All:

    Addressing one of the questions I see arising:

    We DO have a coherent training progression that starts from the ground floor.

    The Real Contact Stickfighting series, featuring Top Dog, is the place to go to establish stick skills.

    For two man training, we begin with the Thai military weaponry forerunner to the ring sport of Muay Thai which is called "Krabi Krabong".

    KK is primal and power-crazed. Strong emphasis on highly aggressive attack-by-combinations that cover A LOT of ground very quickly. The drills are, in a certain sense, rather simple-- which allows them to be done with speed and power in fairly short order. This has the very important added benefit of getting people used to handling strong strikes as a normal thing very early on the path. Then later on when drills get softer, the underlying essence is already understood. Although rather linear, KK is also quite bilateral-- which is a key theme in DBMA so we like to install it from the very beginning which the KK does.

    With this in place we turn to "The Dos Triques Formula". The word "Triques" is a neologism (i.e. I made it up) standing for "The Three Ks" of Kali and Krabi Krabong. Obviously we want nothing to do with the associations that KKK has in the American context!!!

    Here is something I wrote previously about Dos Triques:

    BEGIN
    The term "Los Triques" is our neologism for blending the initials "KKK". For us, KKK are the initials of Kali-Krabi Krabong, but of course the vile associations in American of these initials made it necessary to develop another name for our blending of these two arts-- hence "Los Triques" which, while sounding Filipino, simply means "The Three Ks".

    In "Dos Triques Formula" the "Dos" simply refers to the fact that this material is for double stick. As for the word "Formula"... well, let me see if I can explain.

    As most of you know, DBMA has as its mission statement "Walk as Warriors for all our days" and in the real world this entails 360 degree awareness, often with weapons involved. It is my belief that the chance of success in 360 degree situations is greatly enhanced by the physical ability to operate with either side forward. To give a simple example, if I must operate in a left lead (i.e. left foot forward) and I face one person coming from my North, that is fine. But if a friend of his approaches from my East and I must fight him left lead I will be giving my back to the man to my North. On the other hand, if I can shift to a right lead (probably while moving Southeast), it will be much easier for me to keep track of the man coming from the North.

    In DBMA the ability to fight with either side forward while moving in any direction is developed in double stick. Unlike single stick, we have a weapon in front no matter which foot is forward. Yes very good fighting can be done single stick in the off-lead (stick in rear hand) as we show in "Krabi Krabong" by Ajarn Salty and in the "Los Triques" DVD, but in my opinion his is less applicable to the requirements of 360 degrees. And if we don't care which foot is forward, we can use all the triangular footwork which changes leads-- and if we can use all the triangles while moving and striking (see "Combining Stick & Footwork DVD") we can manifest the potential of the Art in real time.

    In "Dos Triques Formula" I offer what I believe to be a formula of tremendous simplicity and ferocity. Pulling numbers out of the air ;-) against what 95% of fighters do 95% of the time, you will have a clear and simple way of seeing one of three basic structures and have three basic combinations to use in conjunction with three basic triangles.

    Mastering this material in training provides an underlying understanding of footwork, zoning and striking that applies in all categories; not just double stick, but single stick, staff, knife, Kali Tudo and streetfighting.

    And because "It is Dog Brothers Martial Arts, if you see it taught, you see it fought."(c)
    END

    I would add that in rhythmic terms, KK has a 4/4 beat and Kali tends to work with triplets. Put the two together, and something very special results.

    The next step in to intro KK/MT type kicking into stickfighting. This is the "Los Triques" DVD. Single stick with kicking, taken into a very nice loop that enables good vigorous training in closing from outside in to media-corto.

    I could keep going, but I hope I communicate the essence concerning training progression.

    What remains for the purpose of this particular discussion is to add that we do not insist that anyone follow this progression. Like dogs ;-) many people tend to want to follow their noses as to what they want to train and in what order. Thus the DVDs are designed to be "stand-alone" as well as integrated into the larger syllabus of DBMA.

    This takes A LOT more editing work, but people tell us that they really appreciate it.

    In my next post I will address the subject of "Kali Tudo (tm)"

    The Adventure continues
    Marc/Crafty Dog/Guro Crafty
     
  10. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    It's hard for me to explain Krabi Krabong but I have to say it is a great art... Very powerful, very fast, and very effective... Mixing KK with FMA can make one a very dangerous stickfighter...

    Get the DVDs at www.dogbrothers.com for the Krabi Krabong and Los Triques videos to get more info...
     
  11. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

    Following up on my previous post in this thread:

    Our "Kali Tudo" (tm) has become an area of fascination for me. With it, I really have the sense of "being on to something". Recently I was very jazzed by the intrigued response of Kenny Johnson to what I am doing. For those of you not familiar with him, he is a wrestling based MMA coach. You saw him as Noguiera's assistant on TUF this past season and he was part of the team that worked with BJ helping him get ready for his recent fight with GSP. He has also worked with Anderson Silva. Anyway, he trains regularly at Rigan Machado's and we got to talking. "The Rico" (so-called in DBMA because I learned it from Rico Chiapparelli) is a really important position in DBMA clinch game, both with sticks and EH, so I set up a private lesson with Kenny to help me clean up my understanding of it (and to help me with my underhooks-- which really suck). As part of the training in my lesson I would use the Rico to break into various examples of our Kali Tudo. Kenny was so intrigued that he suggested our shooting a DVD together and offered to do an interview saying with he thinks of KT. Our "DB Tribal Gathering of the Pack" comes up on April 4-5, so the DVD shoot with Kenny will have to wait a couple of weeks after that.

    Anyway, the starting point for understanding our KT subsystem is the article that opens the thread at

    http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=597.0

    For a discussion of the material of our second KT DVD "The Running Dog Game" please see the nearby thread on this forum as well as
    http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1806.0

    Please take a look at these and then I will be glad to answer any questions.

    The Adventure continues,
    Guro Crafty
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2009
  12. Crafty Dog

    Crafty Dog Active Member

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