Do you practice a bastardized FMA?

Discussion in 'General' started by geezer, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. geezer

    geezer Member

    OK, here I go again.

    I hear people talk a lot about this or that FMA being more "pure" or unadulterated than another, or that they have a "purer lineage" and so on. On the other hand, people tell me that the Philippine culture is incredibly diverse, with over 7,000 islands, fostering innumerable tribes, dialects, customs and, of course, fighting systems... all mixing and contesting. And then there were the influences from Indonesia, Malaysia, China, Spain, the US, Japan... and ultimately the FMA's spreading worldwide. So, all things considered, do you practice a "bastardized" FMA or a "pure" art. And either way, what the heck do you mean?
  2. Kailat


    Oh wow, good call geez!! I wish I could answer that. I'd have to go to my teacher to ask this question and get an honest answer.

    If I were to guess, I'd say what I was taught all these years were a "mixture" of many... there-fore it being in your terms bastardized... Once you start taking a hybrid here, and a hybrid there and putting this with that, making alphabet soup then you have a complete, incomplete system made of a whole bunch of something creating a larger something. It's a mess in a sense...

    I look at it from the perspective of we have certain systems which are the Fathers, and Grandfathers of our arts. These sources are exactly that. Sources, we draw from them to get where we are today to make up our own way!

    Since the early 70's when Bruce Lee came out of the mold and seemed to make it okay and standardized the truth of creating your own way, from the many other ways of the martial world, I think it then became less critisising to do so. No-one dared to mention their art was impure before that I don't believe..Since the rise of Martial Arts in America it has spun a web of multi-million dollar industry for some to create a martial arts program from many others. Also by creating their own spin on why this works from that, and that works from this particular style. Okay so I don't see "this" being as effectve as "that" from said style so let's chuck that in the (no longer useful) pile and put the " This" in the (keep for future reference) pile. And bingo bango someone has his/her own form or style making it bastardized. Does this person get less credit for doing so? I dont' think so, because I think it is ultimetly in the end your art and your style and your way to do with what you want....If it works and it's proven to work then it should be taught as a complete system no matter where it comes from..

    That is my opinion...
  3. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Personally I don't believe that any art is "pure" anymore. That goes for Okinawan, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc as well as the Filipino arts. There's more sharing among instructors now-a-days as well as fighting or sparring where both participants walk away from it allowing the loser to adapt to the techniques that beat them or "steal" the technique. There are also the few extraordinary practitioners that have found ways to improve upon the techniques and methods of the past and/or adapt them to the needs of the present. There's absolutly nothing wrong with this, and I feel the FMA's are particularly good with this type of "evolution". It's a big reason why I chose to discontinue studying traditional karate after 13yrs to focus mainly on my Senkotiros training. I feel it to just be more practical than what I was doing.
  4. Kailat



    You my friend summed up exactly what I was hoping to try to say... Thank you

  5. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Yes definately the world has opened up and everything is available to train in if you so choose. The FMA's are very, very good at evolving and growing! [​IMG]
  6. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Call it what ya want...just as long as you call matters not to me. As long as my stick finds the bone and the blade the flesh and my empty hands put you on Q & O street. The proof isn't in the what, rather in the how and more so the why giving one the ability to take how and use it with intent when the shite splats the fan. So bastard that ..LOL....ahhh isn't life grand.
  7. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I had asked one of the original serrada guys this a few years ago when he visited my school here on guam.. It was at a time when there was another serrada guy spouting that he taught the original system as developed by GM Cabales. I didn't get any response from the original serrada instructor.
    There was another time when I did a demonstration of full contact stick fighting at the field house here.. I had heard through the grapevine that another instructor who is a Inosanto/Lacoste and Pekiti practitioner state that I didn't show the pure fighting form of the eskrima systems that I teach..

    I feel that if you are teaching a "pure" eskrima system, you are like a parrot imitating what your instructor said.. In old school eskrima training, you were put into sparring right out of the box and had to develop your own system to suit your purposes.. That is how it was, none of these drills that are shown in the schools now. Remy Presas was one of the first instructors that I know to break the fighting down to drills and subsystems.. I teach the drills, but at the same time, my people use their training to develop their own system. I tell them when they first start training with me, if something doesn't feel right or they have trouble with the stufff that I teach them, let me know and I modify it to suit their needs..

    My instructor in sinko tiros and Balintawak used applications from both systems and put it in a program that suited us. That is how I was taught and that is how I teach.

    My sinko tiros instructor was originally from batangas, so he had training with the balisong, but that was the least of our training. We used to spar with heavy sticks, not flimsy ones that flap in the breeze.. If you can handle the heavy stick, the lighter ones are faster in your hands.

    If this is a pure fighting art, so be it. But as an instructor who trains in 3 different systems of eskrima, I use what ever pops into my head for applications of attack defense.. Right now I am practicing sinko tiros, balintawak and just started Dekiti Tirsia a little more than 18 months ago. So I have the ability to pick and choose what works for me and to pass it along to my students.
  8. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    From a historical perspective I find it very interesting researching the roots of particular FMA systems.
    This gives me a regional overview of techniques and styles and how there may be differences and similarities - sometimes these are significant similartities and differences.
  9. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I am the same way when it comes to researching the FMA systems that peak my curiosity. I try to find the more esoteric systems of the provinces when I go to the Philippines and usually do find one that is out of the main stream..
    The province where my wife is from (pampanga) has/had a reputation for being one of the more combative areas of the philippines.. It was referred by several of the people who have written books and been on video that the Macebebe warriors of Pampanga were the main stream fighters of the central luzon area..
    So far since I've been training in the Filpino warrior arts, I have had the ability to sample the systems of:
    Kalintaw by PG Galo Lalic
    Modern arnis: Edward Valasquez
    Comjuka: Eduardo Velasquez
    Sinko Tiros: Rafael Reston
    Balintawak eskrima: Rafael Reston(estokada)
    Dekiti Tirsia Siradas: Jerson Tortal Sr
    John Bednarski
    Maharlika Kuntaw Con Turla

    This is a partial list of who I have been fortunate to train with and when I go to the Philippines next month, I am planning to train with some of the other instructors who I have made contact with over the years.

    Will post analysis of the systems that I train with next month after I return from my trip to the Philippines.
  10. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    Hi Bill.Great list of who you have studied with so far,and it sounds like from next month you are going to expand on it.
    I would be interested in hearing about this,so perhaps a nice thread would be in order?

    I will be travelling to Mindanao at some point in the future to train with a Lightning friend of mine who lives down there.I am going to pick his brain about the regional styles.It will be a great trip.

    Hope the trip goes well for you.
  11. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

  12. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    Oh yeah Bill,July,rainy season.I hear there has been a reasonable amount of rain this year,in Manila anyway.
    Stay dry.
  13. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    I'm studying and practicing only one FMA style from one system from one school although I'm familiar with many FMA styles/systems/schools. I don't find the need to train in other styles/systems/schools since my own study and practice aren't finish yet. There's so much to learn but I've nothing to worry about if fundamentals, principles, practices, techniques, and applications will mix, match and blend flawlessly.
  14. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

  15. Kailat


    Great minds think alike, eh Bill...

    Keep up the hard work and good training. WE TRAIN SURVIVORS NOT VICTIMS!!!!!

  16. geezer

    geezer Member

    It's nice to have someone with your level of experience put into words what I've been thinking. BTW you can still see this kind of mierda posted from time to time on the Serrada forum...and elsewhere! Thanks again --Steve
  17. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    BTW, how come that in MA people are calling the mixing of various arts or styles almost alwas "bastardization", of course with a negative conotation. Would you call the beautifull women of some creoles peoples and mulatos bastardized ;-)
  18. geezer

    geezer Member

    Heck no! I just picked the word because it grabs your attention! If I had said "hybridized" nobody would have responded. Besides, I think "bastard" should have a good connotation. I've been told that America was colonized by the "bastard" sons of Europe. The best dog I ever had was a mutt, and I study a "bastardized" FMA. Someday I hope to be able to fight like a bastard, too!
  19. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    That is how it is for the most part.. You ever hear the story of the Battlin Bastards of Bataan? These were the US army and Filipino scouts who fought bravely on Bataan and Corregidor. My wife's family (on her mother's side) is from GuaGua which is a part of the Bataan Peninsula. Since most of my training has been in the Pampanga Plains area of central Luzon, I classify myself as one of the latter generations of this group because I train primarily us military and security affiliated personnel..
    GM Reston's dad and he were from Batangas and his dad taught the 31st Infantry batallion (US Army) which was stationed in Manila and elsewhere in the Philippines during the days prior to ww2.. I have a manuscript that deals with the history of GM Reston and outlines his training along with his battles in the Philippines before, during and after the war.. I am working on getting it edited and try to get it published so I can help his family since he died in 2006.. GM Reston was a kind individual who taught because he wanted his people and students to survive and although he had a school where he taught a lot of us military the combined art called COMJUKA. He also taught the arts of Sinko Tiros and Balintawak, he trained with some of the older estokada guys who survived the occupation of ww2 and brought those arts to a select few who remained with him during his time on this earth..
    In his later years, GM Reston and I would sit and I would get a historical insite of the martial arts scene in the Philippines, before, during and after the Marcos time.. His talks brought about a new awakening in me about teaching what he taught, for the most part of my training/teaching, I didn't teach what he taught due to my own preferences.. It was something that I wanted to keep close to myself and my senior students.. But when I went to the states in 05, I was disilusioned with the way the majority of the Filipino arts were taught by instructors.. I finally decided to share these arts with the DTS guys in chicago after they took me in as an outsider to this system and made me feel at home.. I even felt more at home when I had the chance to meet and train with GM Jerson "Nene" Tortal, Sr. His teachings were similar to what I had trained with GM Reston while in the Philippines back in the time from the 70's up until 2003 when I had seen him last prior to my moving to the states.. Training with GT Nene brought back the flames that fanned my desire to teach because for almost a year, I hadn't taught anyone, and took a sabbatical while I decided if I was going to retire from teaching and concentrate on my own career as a cop with the federal government..

    I was at a low point in my teaching career due to the fast food approach and arrogant attitudes that I had faced with some of the instructors in the chicago area, but it was with the DTS guys and the training which I had received with GT Nene while in the states, that fanned the embers of the fire that still existed within my mind..

    I thank GT Nene and the DTS guys to include John Bednarski, Mike Snow and the rest of the DTS crew for allowing me to come in and experience a system that had interested me since the time I had first heard of DTS.

    Nuff said
  20. medic

    medic Junior Member

    The manuscript project you are working on sounds quite interesting, I hope it gets published, history always interseted me. This month in Chicago I will get the chance to experience DTS.


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