Defense Against the Knife

Discussion in 'Misc. Knife Arts' started by V-Rex, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. V-Rex

    V-Rex Junior Member thought I'd share this clip from Not sure if anyone has posted it before:

    It has been flagged as graphic so you have to log in to see it.

    It was posted on YouTube to argue that there is no viable defense against a knife. While I'm not inclined to agree in totality, it's good information. The clip contains some footage of Paul Vunak in his prime as well as some tests with police officers trying to draw their firearm before being stabbed. It also contains some horribly graphic pics of knife fight victims in the middle of the video, so don't eat while you watch it.

    All of us who teach FMA with blades occasionally run across the student who overestimates his chances engaging a knife-brandishing threat. Here is a bowl of Reality Chex you can share with them. I posted it on my website, as I believe knowledge is power.

  2. kabaroan

    kabaroan Kabaroan

    As a guy who used to read a lot of firearm magazines, Mas Ayoob used to prove that a person armed with a knife can close 21 feet faster than a police officer can draw and fire.

    Knife fighting is not what it is made up to be in the movies. I think the movie The Hunted while still a Hollywood movie portrayed that very well. My hats off the the Sayoc Kali guys for getting FMA out there.
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Namely, anyone who's studied a Japanese, Korean, or, to a lesser extent, Chinese martial art, it often seems.

    I didn't want to create an acccount so I haven't seen the link. But I know the phenomenon very well!
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

  5. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    not there anymore

    I tried looking at that video on YouTube that "V" put up, but I tried going to it this evening only to find that it had be removed due to 'user violations' (whatever that means!???) Oh well....
  6. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    I don't know if this is the video you were refering to however this does show a knife versus handgun, and its gives a pretty real picture on how a person with a knife (with a little practice) can take on a person with a handgun.
  7. Douglas

    Douglas New Member

    That always assumes the the knife produces an instant kill or incapacitation. I personally doubt that it's always a hard and fast rule.
  8. Waltyr

    Waltyr Member

    thrust or slash.....????

    Very true. The assumption is implied. However depending on whether the targets are structural or neurological ones. Structural ones being a slash to an individuals tendons, fingers being cut off, breaking of joints, dislocations, etc...where a person is physically incapable of hold a weapons, then yes.
    Incapacitation in the sense of stopping the person from harming you or continuing to do so, well.....depends. If targets are neurological ones, such as thrust/stabs/ to major arteries or viens, then time becomes a more important factor. For example, a thrust/stab/slash to a major artery may cause loss of blood pressure, then the subject would fall unconscious. Time in this case becomes a factor only because such an action would take longer to go in effect than say a slash to someones tendons where the result would be 'instantenous' (cut the tendons deep, and fine motor skills go out the window!)
    Thrust/stabs to major organs ( kidneys, liver,) may take some time to take effect a person, minus the heart.
    Now here is an interesting side note: I recently purchased Dan Anderson's "Espada y Daga" book which comes with a DVD showing Bram Frank demonstrating a 'slash' to a piece of meat with a an ordinary folder (a spyderco police model I believe). The meat was easliy as think as a person arm, and Bram Frank kind of put to rest the notion of 'taking a cut/slash in exchange for delivering your own strike'. Basically he just did a simple slash across this piece of meat which was wrapped in denim jeans and showed a cut that was 3-4 inches in depth. Now imagine that on the back of someones wrist, inner wrist, forearm, etc....The question becomes would a strike like that incapacite someone...probably not however whatever was in that hand, chances are it will be dropped and the incapacitation of that limb would occur.
  9. kroh

    kroh New Member

    I have seen the first video. It is a real eye opener as far as how high risk it is when you have a commited attacker and a person who does not regularly practice drawing and firing with the pistol. Not to mention the "officer" stood there and tried to draw rather than creating more distance by moving.

    The Video of Angier Sensei is a good one and the style itself is widely revered amongst people who do Japanese Martial Arts in the United States ( i can't speak as to how it is viewed in Japan.).


    HANGAWAY New Member

    problem is the officer just move his hand to draw the weapon he dont jump backward, sideward whatever movement that create distance to have more time. i guess he is not aware of the danger he is just confident he has a gun which is useless unless yuo point it at atarget already

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