DeCuerdas Eskrima

Discussion in 'General' started by dark_hadou, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    OK - moving took up way too much time. I've never had so much hassle before - sorry for the delay.

    Ok, the difference between a system inheritor and a grandmaster, at least for us. Here's the progression of titles: student, guro, master, grandmaster/eskrimador. A guro develops students. A master has students that have become guros. A grandmaster has guros that have become masters. Grandmaster is supposedly one who has both skill and teaching experience. More than one grandmaster is allowed since it's merely a title, recognition of what one has accomplished.

    A system inheritor is different. Since Decuerdas is a family-specific art (the families in the clan are Tenio, Besira and Ranario), then an inheritor to the art is expected to be family - usually eldest son/nephew who has been trained - altho there are plenty of females with training too. In this particular family, there will always be someone that is trained; these people live this stuff, it's who they are, not just what they do. So, by bloodline and by age and by training, the active clan masters are able to determine an inheritor in the event one is not appointed. Since it's possible for the inheritor to not be a master, then it becomes the duty of the other masters to provide training. The inheritor is looked upon as the family "martial partiarch", the head of the art.
     
  2. La Diestro

    La Diestro New Member

    Hey!!! The next time you call him up, ask him just how much he HATES Arthur Gonzalez. The responce you receive will not be allowed to be posted, or at the very least severely edited.

    Now, I assume you are talking about Billy Foster, Jr.?

    I, like you, have heard mostly stories of the history of the De Cuerdas group. Who was there, who was taught what? Did anyone outside the family receive any family secrets? Who did Grandmaster Tenio like the best?

    Well, I can attest for one story involving the next blood-line inheritor. I was in class one night at the Stockton Martial Arts Academy. Halfway through class, a big fat kid wearing a do-rag gangster style, and his skinny little buddy came into our' school. First, they sat down in the front row of chairs, closest to the floor. The assistant instructor turned over the class to Ernest Childers, a visititing instructor and student of both Tenio and Juan Eliab. As Guro Childers was showing us a disarm for a reverse grip #1, he was interupted by William Foster's tall fat son. He wanted to demonstrate the REAL De Cuerdas disarm. He couldn't even do it, he was so damn drunk! None of us knew who he was, but we didn't want to cause a scene just in case he knew Arthur. Well, now we know who he is, and if we had known before hand, he wouldn't have made it to the seat. That was just totally disrespectful of the new heir. This happened 6 years ago.

    One story that relates to the "who is the inheritor, who has the real De Cuerdas" question occurred one night when I was at my favorite Stockton bar called Bogeys. My friend Terry told me to say hello and introduce myself to a member of the Tenio family. I think he was the grandson of Gilbert. Terry introduced me as a student of Arthur's, and we talked for a few minutes. I forgot who Terry said he was related to, and I made a mistake by asking him if he was Lee Foster's grandson. He said no, and that he is from TENIO, and that the De Cuerdas that Art Gonzalez and Billy Foster wasn't the FAMILY style like he was taught.

    The next time I went to class, I told Arthur what happened. He told us that when something like this happens, to just shine it on. People are going to claim to be the "Grand Pooba", when they are just sycophants and charlatans.

    As for me, I could care less who is the Emperor of De Cuerdas, because I know what Arthur's got, and I know what THEY got, and they can HAVE it. If you wanna claim something, then PROVE IT WITH YOUR' SKILL!!
     
  3. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    Interesting...One thing you may not have known...there are two sons. Unfortunately one of them has had a real bad time with substance abuse and it sounds like he may be the one you met. I'm not exactly sure how he's doing lately but I sure hope he's gotten better - that kind of life can sure get rough. Plus, a lot of toes get stepped on and a lot of bridges burned...

    Whether or not anyone likes or hates anyone else wasn't the topic of this thread so I didn't write anything regarding that. I am aware that there are a lot of bad feelings, justifed or not, between many individuals. I just hope that someday people can/will leave the past where it is...in the past...and look forward to continuing excellence in the FMA's.
     
  4. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    Upon La Diestro's suggestion I called...

    There is no hatred or bad blood on the part of Foster's son toward anyone in any system. This does not necessarily mean that others feel the same about him. He acknowledges that he did/said many things in the past that he's not proud of today but he is not able to change what has already happened. If others want to hold on to "drama" then that's their perogative. He realizes that his actions were partly based on being "hot-headed" as a youth (extremely hot, I recall) and partly from substance abuse. You've heard he saying "Young and dumb and full of..." (you know how this line ends). If apologies are in order, then he's willing to dish them out with total humility and no ego.

    He's now focused on growing up, taking care of his family and teaching what he has learned - no quest for fame, fortune or glory. If anyone wants to take control of the Decuerdas style...go ahead...it's free for the taking. He's going to do his own thing.
     
  5. La Diestro

    La Diestro New Member

    Hi again.

    Lee Foster has 2 sons and 1 daughter, if I'm told right. The one that showed up was Billy. Arthur had met the other son and daughter on different occasions, and felt good about them.

    I'm sure I'll see Billy at Bogey's bar someday. My friend Terry, who knows him, said I missed him by a couple of minutes one night. If I'm introduced, I'll tell him that I'm a student of Arthur. Hopefully nothing will come of it, but I hope he comes correct. I also hope he has recovered.
     
  6. diestro

    diestro New Member

    Additional information, I am a student of Grandmaster Gonzalez, and have been training with him for nearly 10 years. In the entire time he has not once claimed to be the inheritor of Tenios’ system and we have always assumed that Richard his son would be the next legitimate inheritor of Tenios’ Decuerdas. Several years ago Master Gonzalez had asked, on more then one occasion for Richard Tenio to return to the FMA seen and continue where his father had left off, when he didn’t Master Gonzlez asked permission from Richard Tenio to start his own system with the inclusion of much of the late Tenio’s Art. Permission was granted and Richard even passed down his father’s belt to Master Gonzalez. Since then we continue to pay honor to the late Gilbert Tenio, but we never claim to be the sole inheritor of his system. We did have the name of Decuerdas Original Eskrima and have since settled on the name of Diestro Decuerdas Fighting System. In order to legitimize his new system he also obtained the concurrence of several other legitimate Grand Masters, Masters and Professors within the martial arts community and obtained their signatures of approval
     
  7. tanod

    tanod New Member

    is this the same as serrada eskrima? i know they have a technique called decuerdas
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I thought this was a different style?
     
  9. StknDecuerdas

    StknDecuerdas New Member

    Yes, it is a principle. Yes, it is a technique. Yes, it is a system. Is it the same for everyone? No. I believe Inayan has a sub-system called Decuerdas, where they focus on certain blade attributes. Others define the term as going "by the Chords" meaning a technique to connect multiple hits. The same definition was explained as reffering to the three chi-esque lines that run parallel in a flow on the outside and inside of the arm and how to manipulate with various nerve attacks. Still another considers it to refer to reenforced blocking. While others associate the term with the particular system as taught by the late Grandmaster Gilbert Tenio. Except for the Inayan system, which I have not been personally acquainted, I have been taught by various instructors all of these at one time or another. Decuerdas can REALLY be as ESOTERIC or as PRACTICAL as you want to make it. that's just my experience.
     
  10. 408kali

    408kali New Member

    Just a very quick topical comment regarding Cabales Serrada Eskrima. I am by no means an expert on the lineage of the system, but- have found Cabales Serrada Escrima to be generally regarded as a derivitive of the DeCuerdas system as taught by Felicisimo Dizon. I am sure there are former students of Angel Cabales who can give more detailed information.
    I myself eagerly await when more information regarding the lineage of this devastating system is more readily available.

    Respect, ~John
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2007
  11. platypus

    platypus New Member

    This is the kind of talk that keeps the bad blood flowing. Questions like those just recycle gossip.

    The De Cuerdas clan in general is not blabby and quite private. This may have led to a lot of the gossip, speculation and myths. If it's a family secret, only the family knows. If others know, it's not a secret.
     
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Certainly, let's focus on the positive!
     
  13. hnb5

    hnb5 New Member

    concerning the subject of finding someone to learn decuerdas from. i have been learning from Prof james muro for the last eight years. He was part of the first group to learn from GM tenio. who was given a masters certificate from tenio himself. i have asked him who else teaches and he mainly states arthur gonzalez in stockton.
    I would like to comment as well on the method decuerdas as some have stated before.That
     
  14. hnb5

    hnb5 New Member

    decuerdas

    concerning the subject of finding someone to learn decuerdas from. i have been learning from Prof james muro for the last eight years. He was part of the first group to learn from GM tenio. who was given a masters certificate from tenio himself. i have asked him who else teaches and he mainly states arthur gonzalez in stockton.
    I would like to comment as well on the method of decuerdas as some have stated before.That it is direct in it attitude and as prof muro puts it a combat art.
     
  15. PATTONCLAN

    PATTONCLAN New Member

    I was there!

    I would like to start out by saying that i have ben away from Eskrima and all martial arts for about 20 years until now ,something sparked my interest and found me here. I have nothing to gain or loose by what i am about to share since i do not have any contact or afiliation with any of the old school boys and now live in the pacific northwest ,i nolonger am even around the area for many years so please take what i say for being the truth for as best as i can remember and please forgive for misspeling of names or being unaware of deaths. to start out my name is Mark. I was a direct student of GrandMaster Tenio, Jhon Eliab and Aurther Gonzalez starting in 1980 till about 1990, I was 13 years old when i first started to train with Tenio. I thought i would have to stop training with him because my father could nolonger aford the classes , a wopping 20.00 a month, but he said do not worry about it it was not for the money and so i continued my lessons out of kindness to share. In my 10 years of training i never accepted any rank it was not important to me or him. there were some in our small group that were just the 2 hour 2 day a week students one of those students were van donk who i only seen be a part of the classfor about one year i believe in 81 or 82 and then he got into that ninjitsu hahahaha stuff!!! never to be seen of again untill Gilbert died, so the $2500 mastership i can believe. As far as Aurther Gonzalez goes, he treated Gilert as a father as far as i could tell and Gonzalez live and breathed Decuerdas, we would work out with each other from 8 am to 8 pm in Acampo CA at least 3- 4 nights a week, i spent more time training than i did in high school. I think we ate and pooped ratan sticks. it was realy somthing when the sun went and you could see the sparks flying off the blades when we spard and played. to say that Aurther payed for his mastership would be a lie and insult to the great dedication that man spent learning and a insult to Tenio himself who i know spent alot of time teaching us . And Threw very hard work and countless hrs of practice pesonally seen Aurther demonstrait i also was a eye witness to him reaseiving his mastership in the form of a red belt publicly given to him in the dojo of Grandmaster Wally Jay JUJITSU school, there was also a dinner that followed the honer later and had heard Gilbert refer to Aurther as being a master. I have no belt or rank or cert. of any type ,just fond memory of my teacher mentor and freind and to say it was my privaledge to learn his style and proud to say "I was there", Mark.
     
  16. PATTONCLAN

    PATTONCLAN New Member

    i would have to agree I have trainded with Art and Tenio in the early days.
     
  17. Epa

    Epa Member

    PATTONCLAN, Since you trained with Grandmaster Tenio for awhile would you be willing to talk a little bit about the style and the way he trained you guys. I'm always interested to hear about how the older generation of teachers taught the art. Thanks in advance.
     
  18. PATTONCLAN

    PATTONCLAN New Member

    What it was like

    Well for starters, the first year all we learned was Serrada and largo mano, nothing wrong with that , was a grat foundation and gave us the skills to play with other eskrimadores when we traveled. then he would start us on disarms and espade y daga, and 2 bolos, we did have a school from time to time but moved around alot from a dojo to back yards and a navy base at rough n ready island. There was those in our class that were not as serios as others about learning. but to those who wanted it he taught Dequerdas. I remember i and Raul Gonzalez had a hard time with footwork until we got a willow switch on the back of the calves a few times then we realy new how to move our buts in positions, in the class he would have us train with ratan stick but when we had personal training at Arthur Gonzalez's house, Grand Master Tenio would have us train with cocobolo or bolo mechette for many hours until we coud do our stuff in the dark , and we did. the grapling and weapons i found to be second to none as i put it to the test in other non eskrima schools by my third year. its realy hard to explain what its like if you had not tasted it youself, but i think grandmaster Tenio said it best when he held his double edge blade in his hand and would say "devistating" and it was! one of the other practices is he would have us go threw a gontlet and defend ourselves as we went threw, that was cool. the weapon removel he showed us to have compleat control of blade by our first move and dealing a death blow by the aponets weapon within that first move somtimes by the second. the amount of stuff we learned and how far we took it was unbelieveable from armed to unarmed i do not think it could all be contained in a book. He took the killing style so far that our minds and hands flowed into endless posibilities. every techneek we did multiplied into a dozen and each of those into a dozen more and so on, we thought we could name and number the moves but found it to be to much a task and our speed became like that of a high speed fan, you could not see the weapon, you Knew when grandmaster Tenio was pleased with what you did when he would smile and say "that was most devistating" .Like i said , i took no belt or rank, just stayed in the shadows, and loved to be the guinypig when other masters showed up to share there stuff like Dentoy Revalar, Angel Cabalas and others, my memory is a little cloudy. I would have to say besides grandmaster Tenio and Art Gonzalez that Master Dentoy Revelar left a great impresion on me when i seen him move and felt how fast his hands and weapons were as i was being the demo man. What a awsome Eskrimadore! Corect me if you will on his title. Any other thing i can anser i would be glad too and any stories of our travels i will post as the fog clears, thanks Mark.
     
  19. PATTONCLAN

    PATTONCLAN New Member

    sticky hands

    I remember another practice that grandmaster Tenio would have us do he called it stick hands, we would practice it for hrs and days until we owned it then we did it blindfolded until we felt it and knew what the other man was going to do before he did it then we did the same thing with a blade in our hand and then 2 blades from that we incorperated the grapleing joint locks from every joint starting with the fingers up to the neck down the spine and to the legs, after we did well with the locks all the locks became brake and we practiced all the locks and brakes threwout the body with all the body weapons that God equiped us with our hands, arms, fingers ,elbows,shoulders head, teath ,hips legs ,knees feet each weapon became a atack per there joint to lock or brake times the inside, outside, under and over. after the locks and brakes we atacked the soft points and presure points prety much the same way exausting very posible angle of atack to every posible strike zone with every posible weapon on our body, there was much more hand to hand than that. we were taught a reversals for every lock we were taught and how to defend at every angle but the defence was not realy a defece it was a atack apon there atack at minimun it was 1-1/2 times advance to a kill to a aponets atack. and when we had exausted that Tenio would show something more.
     
  20. Hello

    Hello New Member

    searching for fam. history, and stumbled on this gem

    I hate to burst your bubble of esotericism, but Gilbert Tenio was with his family for the final month of his life. He was not in the woods on some mystical quest to return his "gifts" to nature. The Tenio brothers are laughing at this from the grave, and so am I! ROFL!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh!!!!:laugh:
     

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