DeCuerdas Eskrima

Discussion in 'General' started by dark_hadou, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. dark_hadou

    dark_hadou Junior Member

  2. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    Are you sure?

    http://www.decuerdas.com/

    Besides Arthur Gonzalez
    There's also Dentoy Revillar (SLD Eskrima).
    I don't know if Master Revillar classifies as a heir though.

    The Del Mar system also has Tenio Decuerdes in it.
     
  3. Buwaya

    Buwaya Senior Member

    BTW, I have no idea why my post as a thumbs up icon on it.:confused: weird.
     
  4. langgaw

    langgaw New Member

    hello all,
    Does anyone know if there is decuerdas in the island of Cebu and who is propagating it? I am curious because I heard this art is still in the shadows. ...-rd-
     
  5. dark_hadou

    dark_hadou Junior Member

    yea it seems there are several styles that hav intergrated Decuerdas system into there own system
     
  6. langgaw

    langgaw New Member

    de cuerdas

    That is very true. I want your opinion on its quality compared to the other schools. I know a little decuerdas myself but I have no idea how is this integrated with the Master Van Donk school since it looks like a Japanese one...-rd- Do you practice FMA too?.. and what kind?.-rd-
     
  7. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    To my knowledge when Tenio unfortunately passed away all of his senior students went their own way and all of them are Grandmaster's now. I believe his son is the sole inheritor to his system. All of the other senior students have I believe added a slightly different name to their system.
    Example : Van Donk system = Dynamic DeCuerdas Eskrima! That is my take on it anyway.

    Brian R. VanCise
    www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
     
  8. dark_hadou

    dark_hadou Junior Member

    hmmmmmmm interesting
     
  9. agimat

    agimat New Member

    There's also Wayne Caseria too.
     
  10. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    I realize this post is a little late but I figured I'd throw my little bit of info in the mix...

    To qualify myself to comment here - my FMA lineage includes Tenio Decuerdas. My instructor received his master's certification under Gilbert Tenio and I have received some training from Master Tenio myself prior to his passing (I was also a participant at what ended up becoming the last class he ever taught). My instructor (and his school) has been an active member under Tenio since the mid-80's.

    What I am aware of is that before Master Tenio passed, he allowed Art Gonzalez and Rich VanDonk to label themselves a grandmaster in Decuerdas. Why? They both paid him $2,500 for the title. Master Tenio wasn't exactly a weathy man and no doubt could've used the money. Note that I wrote "a grandmaster in Decuerdas", not "THE grandmaster of Decuerdas". Master Gonzalez currently teaches "Decuedas Original Eskrima" while VanDonk has created "Dynamic Decuerdas Eskrima". Both individuals have grandmaster title but neither are the recognized heir to Master Tenio.

    VanDonk has claimed to be Tenio's senior student/inheritor since Master Tenio passed but NOBODY in the Tenio clan and no other Tenio-taught Decuerdas master recognizes this claim, that I am aware of. One opinion (and this is just an opinion) is that he only claims senior student/inheritor within his ninjutsu organization and uses the claim to help sell instructional DVDs. He does not participate in our annual gathering and his signature is not one of the three required on our promotion certificates.

    If you follow bloodline/family for determining an inheritor then Richard Tenio (the son) was recognized as heir but he never continued developing his skills enough to be considered a grandmaster (no offense intended). So, (unofficially) Master William Foster was looked to as the head of the organization. When he passed in late '05, his oldest son was offered the opportunity to inherit his family's art. He is currently looked upon by many masters (Decuerdas and otherwise) as the upcoming Decuerdas patriarch.

    This is just a nutshell post and I'm sure there are many other opinions out there but...I figured this thread could use a post from someone who is actually a member within the Tenio "clan".
     
  11. dark_hadou

    dark_hadou Junior Member

    thank you

    thank you again so much for ur reply very very infomative indeed, i wish there was someone that would continue his legacy
     
  12. langgaw

    langgaw New Member

    I hope to learn more of how this matter is resolved and why there was no formal handing over of the system to a more legitamate (objectively saying) inheritor. This is also happening to many systems where there is no clear delegation of who should carry on the baton after a GM passess away. Egos and money sometimes become suspect for situations like this and yet there may be reasons and legitamte reasons that we do not know yet. It would be best to hear from the learned ones direct from the clan itself. Someone out there could shed some facts............just me talking.
     
  13. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Just me writing as well:

    What if the one chosen is not the one you want to support?

    What if the one chosen does not fit your idea of who should be in charge?

    What if the one who as told to teach was not native born the culture or heritage?

    If any of the above were true, and yet the person in question, had witnesses or video tape or documents, would that change your mind? Would you support in pulic but not in private?

    Would you walk away and teach what you thought you yourself was taught in the manner you were taught, even if it was different from the chosen sucessor?

    Just curious
     
  14. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    Indeed. Many of "us" are simply waiting for Foster's son to assume the role. He's got a lot of reasons for his hestiation and has a pretty negative attitude toward all that's happened the past 12 years since GM Tenio passed - and that's his perogative. I hope he'll soon be able to see the positive side of his family's legacy and focus on that.

    Learning more would be nice but is probably not likely to happen. Instead of answers, I can only offer a little more history: (bear in mind that I'm reaching back a ways and never anticipated that I'd be explaining any of the things that happened back then...I guess I shoulda paid closer attention)
    After that last class I mentioned in my previous post, GM Tenio and his wife had actually disappeared for a couple of months. His wife finally showed back up (or she was found, I don't recall now) with news that Tenio had passed. Apparently they were in the woods or some back-to-nature-type place where Tenio spent his last days returning his oracions back to nature - at least that's the story we were all told. So, since he was essentially missing for his final days, no one was openly appointed the inheritor. We can only speculate that he assumed his son would take over and the other family members and masters would make sure things would work out (?).

    Unfortunately, since Richard Tenio didn't seem too interested, the clan members weren't very business oriented and organized and the other recognized masters (like Gonzalez, VanDonk, Revillar, Moro, and others) were already doing their own thing, the organization didn't go very far. I wasn't around during the late 90's (had moved to Florida) but from what I understand there were NO promotions and the clan sorta stagnated.

    After all is said and done, I'd guess that the only non-bloodline masters that right this minute could be considered for GM after William Foster's death would probably be either Dentoy Revillar or Gilbert Cordoncillo. I say this because promotion certificates require 3 signatures in order to be valid. When GM Tenio passed in '94, Revillar and Cordoncillo were each asked to fill the third spot. Cordoncillo declined stating that Revillar was more qualified (out of respect for his having many more years affiliation with the clan). I don't know if Revillar accepted - I think he may have but don't remember. Now, Revillar currently is into his SLD Eskrima and has close ties with Bahala Na which makes Cordoncillo the 'man of the hour' by default. About a year ago, Cordoncillo formally announced to his own organization that he recognizes Foster's oldest son as the inheritor and would work on pulling the other masters together to polish his skill and teach him to use his oracion.

    So, final word (at least from little ol'me) is that Foster is the sole inheritor of Tenio Decuedas. He's certainly got the support within the clan.

    dark_hadou: Just wondering - you originally opened this thread asking if anyone had trained in Tenio Decuerdas. I'm assuming you're looking for instruction or were you just looking for more info sources than VanDonk's websites?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2007
  15. langgaw

    langgaw New Member


    This puzzles me as well. If I am reading it right, the inheritor needs to be trained some more (not saying he is not up to par) or polished some more. Inheritors could either be by bloodline or by skills. I am the wrong person to opine on this but I sure need more views as most of us wants. It makes one think whether an "Inheritor" should be a skilled follower or must be of bloodline regardless of skills. Yet , a bloodline might prove to be better thatn anyone considering the masters that surround and polish his/her skills. The other followers who claimed succession may just want to continue the art/system (?) w/out mailce maybe because it has stagnated and could have evolved the system too ,... trying to preveent it from dying, could also be considered a candidate because of hte loyalty shown. What should be right and acceptable to all. I have more questions than I can handle. What if there are other groups too who would want to use DeCuerdas as their base system? This is really an interesting topic as it is happening to other clans too. Boy, do we need more inputs to qualify the historical facts shared to us here in.
     
  16. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    hmm...the "new" inheritor is qualified to take the position IMO and others. Unfortunately, HE doesn't believe this...yet...hence the need for polish. I'm sure there are things he hasn't quite seen or realized within the skills he currently has and that will also be something the other masters will help to bring out of him - ultimately allowing him to fully step into his mastery of the art.

    Within our organization, we tend to recognize bloodline first - those guys are usually given the "core" (if you can call it that) teaching that very few others are allowed to learn. If the family member cannot/will not fulfill the position, then the one of the senior members is given the lead - by the other senior members. Which is what happened after GM Tenio passed.
     
  17. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Please understand my questions were abstract and not directly related to the person currently being discussed
     
  18. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    Not a problem at all...thx tho for offering to clarify. Actually I was responding more to the last post by Langgaw - which did reference your post. You do bring interesting questions - and ones that many of us face whenever someone "moves up the ranks". It doesn't even have to be an art's inheritor; master and even guro rank can make some people get weird.
     
  19. langgaw

    langgaw New Member

    I always enjoy objective discussion such as this. Is not a Grandmaster given to the the original teacher andthe students can only reach masters? somehow that is always my understanding.What would the inheritors title be? where I come from has alot of GMs and Ms and I can not tell who is who. My teacher himself do not follow the title system but has to because that is the norm. Others become masters by virtue of number of years, by fight experience, by number of certificates, no. of actual training, by politics, by money and some by skills and age. A title to me is a respecteable status but what would the basis be. I am strongly inclined towards bloodline basis as the first logical choice for a successor/inheritor.Is it possible for you to get the facts from the source,(not that I am imposing) because we are all curious to know.I have to be extra careful with asking more than necessary. Salamat po.
     
  20. kotaro

    kotaro New Member

    I've been moving the past few days but things are starting to settle back down now...I'll call "the inheritor" (I've purposefully left his name out for his privacy) tomorrow and see if I can get him to open up a little. Will post what he says.
     

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