Beating a Grand Master

Discussion in 'General' started by The Phalanx, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Here's something I've been wondering... It sounds childish but hey, who cares?

    What if a young fighter in his prime is able to beat a Grand Master in his 50s? Someone like a pro MMA fighter...

    Would that fighter still call that person Grand Master? Cause in my mind, anyone who outranks you should be able to beat you...
     
  2. ajs1976

    ajs1976 New Member

    yes. there is a lot more to martial arts then raw physical ability.
     
  3. Crutch

    Crutch New Member

    koan

    Gasan was sitting at the bedside of Tekisui three days before his teacher's passing. Tekisui had already chosen him as his successor.
    A temple recently had burned and Gasan was busy rebuilding the structure. Tekisui asked him: "What are you going to do when you get the temple rebuilt?"
    "When your sickness is over we want you to speak there," said Gasan.
    "Suppose I do not live until then?"
    "Then we will get someone else," replied Gasan.
    "Suppose you cannot find anyone?" continued Tekisui. Gasan answered loudly: "Don't ask such foolish questions. Just go to sleep."

    Woof,

    Crutch
     
  4. JohnJ

    JohnJ Senior Member

    While I realize this is a hypothetical question, what comes to mind first and foremost is WHY would a student fight his instructor? Secondly, if a student gets that good then he should be grateful to have an instructor that has been that influential on his progression. And not arrogant that he loses his respect.

    This is a misconception especially in a martial community that is plagued by "paper" instructors. Ranks, belts and certificates don't mean much nowadays except to the general public that knows nothing.
     
  5. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Childish, nope...odd yes

    Here again in what regard? A sporting match? A all out death match? What? With weapons? Rules?...etc

    If he is the student of the man I would hope he would have enough class and sense to honor his teacher. Remember there is more to being a grandmaster than mere physical prowess.

    Why would you think that? To me that mind set speaks of someone who sees things in a singular fashion or perhaps who hasn't truly understood what it is all about. The physical gifts pass with age and time..it happens to everyone..and yes it will happen to you as well. My question is this..why would a young man even challenge an old master..to me this shows the ultimate disrespect and quite frankly shows of someone who hasn't grown one iota on his personal path.

    Speaking for myself if some young hot shot came and challenged my teacher he would have to first go through me and everyone else within the clan. Perhaps that's not the norm in some schools but in Ilustrisimo it most certainly is.

    But then again an old man with cold steel in his hand is quite an adversary.
     
  6. There are no seniors in sparring. What you call someone after is up to you.
     
  7. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    another thing about outranking=outperforming... wjat if on one side we have a man of 200lbs and, say 3rd degree black belt in BJJ, while on the other side a woman of 120lbs and 6th degree black belt in aikido. would you bet on the winner based on the assumption made upkln their rank? And how would you compare those ranks, anyway?
     
  8. geezer

    geezer Member

    OK, here's another way to look at it. Let's dump the ceremonious term "grandmaster" and just use the modern term, "coach". If you are a talented athlete in your prime and you are lucky to have one of the really great, world-class coaches, wouldn't the same thing hold true? Any top notch athlete can physically outperform his or her coach, but that doesn't change how they relate to them. You respect them for their knowledge, experience and for what they can teach you. That should be obvious. Sheeesh!
     
  9. greg808

    greg808 PSDE Main Branch

    .
     
  10. el maldito de cebu

    el maldito de cebu New Member

    a big sign of disrespect my frend. its not worth teaching some one whos attitude is inacceptable. when learm Martial arts to have self discipline and more moral to be called humans not animals.
     
  11. Kali Cowboy

    Kali Cowboy New Member

    If you are their student and you really wanted to fight, my Master and Grandmaster would tell you to leave and never come back, thus sparing you pain and bloodshed. (You should leave and be happy you can).

    A challenge from a stranger they would tell you to pick up a blade! If you want their reputation and everything they have worked so hard to get, you better be willing to die or at the very least go to the hospital and get stitched up.

    There are no games. sparring is a teaching tool. A fight is a fight. Are you prepared to die for your art? That is the question we should all ask?
     
  12. el maldito de cebu

    el maldito de cebu New Member

    yap your right my fren I think we should post this quetions so we can see what are some opinions of our fellow FMA fighters. I been always a fighter long before I studied FMA. I dont even mind that may be someday I could die to live a reputation built by pride and domenance but is it worth giving your life for? for whats the cause?we study fma to preserve life and defend life we all must not forget that martial arts was depeloped to help the oppressed and a deffesence against oppresor. But I have always been a warrior. Born a warrior, dies a warrior. so the answer is yes then' YES I will die for my art. If I succeed I rip the fruit of my exploits but if I die I bring to my grave the shame of defeat and being a broke[​IMG]
     
  13. pesilat

    pesilat Junior Member

    Yup. The one commonly pointed out is Cus D'Amato. As a boxing coach he trained several world champions including Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson. I'm pretty sure that D'Amato wouldn't have stood a chance against any of his protege in the ring. While I'm sure he was a competent boxer he wasn't in their league. That didn't prevent him from helping take these boxers to the highest echelons of their sport.

    I think a martial arts instructor - regardless of specific title - should be competent at sparring and/or fighting (depends on the context of what s/he teaches) but there's *always* someone better. That doesn't take anything away from the skill/understanding of the instructor and his/her ability to pass that on.

    Mike
     
  14. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Most of the Grandmasters I know and trained with over the years would have two words to the student and they aren't let's dance. Simply because a young fighter would want to fight a Grandmaster is a what if scenario that would be laughed at by most of the guys I know. In my training of Kuntao and other FMA combative systems, most of the masters or grandmasters would either pull a blade or most of the time, the student who made the challenge would be looking down the barrel of a 45 automatic or some other type of firearms. Most of the Grandmasters I know in the states who also teaches the FMA or any other blade related art would back it up with training in the ancient american art of Ching Ching Pau or skeetgundo. Let's see the student who issued the challenge see if he still had the cajones to challenge anyone else after he goes and changes his brown stained underwear if that were to happen.
    Points to Ponder.




     
  15. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    As we say in Bahad Zu'Bu KA'Li Ilustrisimo...."IF YOU CHALLENGE, BRING STEEL"...I see someone who challenges me as a direct threat to my life...and as my colleague and good friend Silat1 said "ching ching pow"
     
  16. oosh

    oosh Junior Member

    Nice quote Mike. Is BZ Mang'taas baraw no more ?
     
  17. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    "ching ching pow".. I was thinking.. three shots missed.
    Shouldn't it be, "chug chug blag"? Two spent, one spared.
     
  18. Carol

    Carol <font color = blue><b>Technical Administrator</b><

    Nope, ching ching pow. Load, Lock, BANG!

    One shot spent cuz that was all that was needed ;)
     
  19. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Nah Raul,
    The way I teach my guys is 2 in the chest, one in the head to make sure the "student" who challenges the masters of Ching Ching Pau takes care of challenges from other systems. That is how I was taught by my grandmasters of Ching Ching Pau some 40 yrs ago..

     
  20. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Carol,
    You are getting the two systems mixed up!!! The one kill shot you are thinking of is from skeetgundo. 12 gauge pump version



     

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