Barong used in Doce Pares

Discussion in 'Doce Pares' started by jezah81, Oct 30, 2009.

  1. jezah81

    jezah81 Member

    I am thinking about buying a Barong to use in my Doce Pares solo training exercises. It has a 15 inch blade and is 21.5 inches in total length. Would a barong be OK to use in the Cacoy Canete style of Doce Pares?

    Kind regards,

    Jeremy Hagop
  2. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    While it's certainly o.k. to use a variety of weapons to practice different aspects of FMA's, I would recommend a light pinute with a false edge so that you can take advantage of the rakes and back cuts that are implied in the system. From the little that I've seen of the Cacoy Doce Pares stick sysem I think that a longer weapon (26" - 27") might be appropriate as it will give you more reach on close range strikes to the lower limbs.

    That said, a barong is fun to move around and will teach you a lot re. incorporating slicing actions into your interpretation of the art. Try both and you'll realize the strengths and weaknesses of shorter weapons vs. longer weapons in the context of the art you are practicing.


  3. Labantayo

    Labantayo Junior Member

    If you want to find the correct sword to use in Doce Pares, then find a sword from Cebu. Moro swords are made for Moro arts. Nothing else.
    Visayan martial arts use Visayan swords, not Moro.
    As Steve has already mentioned, a long pinuti from Cebu would be a great sword to practice Doce Pares.
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I studied Eskrido for less than a year but I would agree about the rakes and back cuts that you don't always notice the first time through a technique!
  5. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Member

    I don't know. It seems to me that one of the underlying assumptions of most FMA is the idea of cross-utilization. What you do with one implement, you can do with another. Seems to me you'd be better served by seeing what you can do with a variety of tools. A certain weapon might lend itself better to certain skillsets. But surely you should be able to make good account of yourself using a barong, bolo, kampilan, or plain ol' machete.

  6. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    Agreed. I think that (as you say above) it depends on whether you are using a general or specific skill-set. If I practice how to rake you across the eyes at largo range with the tip of my weapon then I'm going to want a longer, lighter weapon than if I am practicing deep draw cuts across your torso with a big bellied blade. If I want to sever arteries and tendons on your limbs at very close range I'm going to favor a karambit, etc. So many toys, so little time...

    It begs the question, though, of whether you favor developing a general skill-set, as you suggest above, or whether your martial art develops a specific skill set with a specific weapon matched to it.


  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Member

    It does, yeah. Thankfully, I think the styles themselves have enough depth to them to allow for either approach.

    As my previous post suggests, I like the idea of extrapolation over specialization. I try very hard to keep things in a cultural context, and so this sort of detail is important. But I also want to convey applicability. And so I'm inclined to emphasize the commonalities that would allow someone to make a reasonable stab (excuse the pun) at using whatever's at hand in a given situation.

  8. I think Stuart makes great points about the "Versatility" of FMA. I also think of it as "Time Management" too. For many weapons a slight adaptation and application of core concepts will be enough for skill transference.

    However, sometimes the body mechanics of the weapon changes with size.

    I notice when working out with a 24" stick as opposed to a 28" stick you need to get your body involved more at largo range at less at corto range. Also, to use the Kampilan example given above people are going to be in a shock if they try and use it as a single-handed weapon and try and power it through the wrist. Unless you buy the historically inaccurate 27" versions that are knocking around...

    In our system we use a rattan staff the same size as the Kampilan to get the motion down. When you move on to using the Kampilan all you need to do is tweak it a little bit. Things like knowing where the edge is and manipulating the crocodile hilt, the added weight, etc, etc. GM Yuli is able to apply / show the motion from the Kampilan to knives and empty hands too. I have begun practicing it a lot more recently as I have noticed that it is great solo alive-hand training too.

    Sorry for being a bit OT but it is an interesting subject.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
  9. tim_stl

    tim_stl Junior Member

    practicing doce pares with a barong is okay for the purpose of extrapolation, but in beginning to play with a blade, you should start with a blade that the art was designed for. that will help you understand the art better and make extrapolation easier (and more informative).

    of course, if the art is stick-based, it doesn't much matter which blade you start with. :)

  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Member

    I see people's points in so far that certain maneuvers (backhand cuts, for instance) are going to work better with one type of sword versus another. But I've usually thought of Doce Pares as a medio style. Not particularly corto (though Eskrido obviously heavily occupies this range) and not particularly largo. Seems to me that the barong occupies that range between the sticks we typically use and the knives we typically use.

    But as I said, it has depth enough to cater to any number of weapons or personal approaches. And, I'm guessing, my perception is being coloured heavily by a personal preference for that range and for shorter "swords" and sticks. (Not Serrada short, mind you.)

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  11. Big John

    Big John New Member

    Swords are mostly a matter of choice. In my experience the kampilan is given to individuals that achieve or demonstrate a high degree of proficiency in the Doce Pares systems. Is it the signature sword? Maybe, but that shouldn't keep you from playing with a barong. The barong is a nice sword in corto or medio for slashing or chopping. Not so much for largo or thrusting. The blade is usually pressed into the handle and not pinned. Thrust into something solid and the handle can split or the blade gets left behind when you draw back from the target. Pinuti, gununting are good solid choices too. Pick, play and enjoy.

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