Balintawak Entry on MartialTalk MartialArts Encyclopedia

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by Bob Hubbard, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

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    MTMAE Entries:
    Balintawak
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    A major addition has been made to the Wikipedia Balintawak article. Please check it for accuracy! (I didn't add it, I just noticed it.) If it looks good, port it over to Martialpedia!
     
  3. Rolando

    Rolando New Member

    I'm afraid that the word Balintawak is taking a different meaning.

    Balintawak has a great historical significance in the Philippines. A place north of Manila where a secret group of brave men met and planned the revolution against Spain in the late 1800s, Andres Bonifacio as one of the leaders. Because of its significance, many places and streets throughout Philippines were named after Balintawak including the street where Ancion formed his school. Ancion named his style "Kuwentada" meaning exchange or transaction (tapi-tapi has sort of the same meaning with emphasis on rhythm of change). Students of Ancion were known as fighters of Balintawak - thus the name stuck.
     
  4. Rocky

    Rocky New Member

    Sorry to disagree but I have been told by GM BUOT and GM PRESAS that Anciong never had a name for his art when he started teaching in the back of his friends shop, so he simply called it the Balintawak Club and the art took on the name ( See my artical from ....... Cuentada is not something that can be taught it is not an exchange ( at least not in the original art as taught by GM BUOT ) it is a level of proficiantcy it is the ability to see several moves ahead, like a good chess player.

    Rocky
     
  5. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Over all good. :)

    The issue about Death Matches.

    I think there should be some a note about how the matches were for real and that Death was a possibility but not a requirement for the conflict to be over. Knock out and or someone stopping the fight is how most ended.

    The point about going to jail was mentioned, but it could be made a little mroe clear.

    I also think Arturo Sanchez should also be mentioned as he trained with Manong Ted Buot and also GM Bacon. He took over as GM Bacon's right hand man after Manong Ted left. He just never pushed himself forward into the lime light.

    I will review again and think about how to maintain the current flow and also possible add in the above. If someone else has an idea please feel free.
     
  6. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hello Rocky,

    I just want to share with you something about the story on account of Noy Anciong himself as he told it to my teacher Teofilo Roma. Noy Anciong only called his style as CUENTADA when asked about the name of his style, which meant for him as planned or accounted moves to always gain shots, but people here in Cebu would only simply called it as Anciong’s style of Arnis. Regarding the name of the group that involves of all his students, people here in Cebu on that moment will identify them as Anciong’s Group. There was no formal organization that was established on that time and the gathering was only some sort of fellowship and training sessions, there were several lawyers and businessmen who joined the group although did not actually trained with him. In 1956, Anciong’s students were increasing into nearly a hundred folds and they called their group as Club 56 and they would occasionally met for a banquet with a moneyed people who joined the group in an informal gathering.

    Anciong never had organized a group and what he had only intended to do all his life is to teach the art to all his friends who are interested to learn. He would only explained the mechanics of his new style to his close friends and invited them to train with him (he is not fond of inviting people who are not close to him). In fact he required those who are not close to him to try him first in a duel before teaching them. In the following year they changed their group’s name into Balintawak Arnis group befitting the location at the Balintawak St. at the back of Noy Dado’s watch repair shop, where they frequently gathered for training sessions and the purpose was to identify it from the Doce Pares Arnis club. I think Noy Teddy Buot had just missed this piece of information, Atty. Villasin was also Noy Anciong’s Assistant Instructor together with Isidro Bardilas and Roman Encarnacion, but his number one fighter was Delfin Lopez before his defeat to Atty. Villasin in a duel.

    God bless!!!

    Wilson R. Ceniza
     
  7. Rolando

    Rolando New Member

    I'm trying to think the best way to define Cuentada. Cuenta means account or to count (as in monetary), in this case I concur that it is planned or accounted. I'm thinking probably "to calculate" or "calculated".

    I just to mention a little about death matches in the Philippines
    • It's illegal
    • the best skilled does not always win (sometimes guns are used)
    • There's nothing romantic about it
    • it doesn't take place in a day, the grudge often last a lifetime, then the family inherits the grudge.
    (I have a hundred more, but I'll stop here)

    It simply sucks!
     
  8. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member


    Many of the accounts I have heard about the 50's and 60's for fights were two people had set a time and they met and faught. Many times others came to watch. Sometimes if a person would not fight or did not show up the other who had would challenge someone else there.

    These fights were between two people who wanted to fight each in many cases or to protect their honor.

    I have heard of some being ended with knock outs. I heard some being ended by a person's wife running out inbetween (* it is uncomely to hit a woman *) and this would end the fight.

    I have also heard how Noy (GM) Bacon went to jail for killing someone who attacked him.

    I also heard from different sources that some would have friends with Guns, which is why one had to have friends there or be public enough (* Still not sanctioned by the police or laws *). I also heard that some faught with a stick in one had and a Gun in the other but Delphin was the only one I heard that about specifically.

    I am not trying to take away anything, for the fights were real and death is major concern being hit in the head with a stick can kill someone. Hence why I like to train no pads at all, to not get used to having that available to protect me. NOTE: I have not had any serious matches, all Play, so I respect what happened and can happen and still happens, I was just looking for some clarification to be written, as one did not have to kill the other to end the match.
     
  9. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hello Rich,

    Some stories you’ve heard are true, like that of ending the fight with knock outs or a person’s wife come running in between, but some are not. Here in the Philippines carrying of gun in public by a civilian was prohibited because only the Police is authorized to carry such thing, however civilians can secure a license from the government to possessed a firearm, but they are not allowed to carry it with them in public. Outlawed people tack their gun inside their shirt to conceal from the Police, and that is the reason why there were so many cases of killings here by a firearm.

    Delfin Lopez had firearms because his line of business was a Security Agency and all the firearms that are used by the member of his security guards are licensed in his name and he too had his own personal licensed handgun. There were rumors here in Cebu that he had killed seventeen people but there is no evidence and he never had indicted in court for such cases. In the 1950’s or 60’s, a fighter who end up killing his opponent in death matches was not considered a skilled practitioner of the art and Delfin wants only to be popular with his skill in Balintawak Arnis.

    In all of Delfin Lopez’s fight, only Atty. Villasin and Anciong Bacon his teacher (when he tried to fight against him to test his ability) had defeated him.


    Respectfully,

    Wilson R. Ceniza
    Teovel Balintawak Self-defense Club
    Mandaue City, Cebu, Phjilippines
     
  10. Toasty

    Toasty New Member

    Hello again Wilson,

    From what i have researched - it has been stated by many different people that Anciong never used the word "Arnis" for what he taught - only "Eskrima".

    Also, I have never heard of a "duel" between Villasin & D. Lopez... could you elaborate on this please.

    Thanks
    Rob
     
  11. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

  12. Soncen

    Soncen Teovel Balintawak

    Hello Rob,

    Thanks for your reaction!!! I’m glad that you care doing some research about our Balintawak martial art.

    Anciong also had taught some bare hand combat and knife fighting. Eskrima is only a stick fighting the major component of our martial arts we called Balintawak arnis. People here in Cebu on that moment only called the martial art of Anciong as Anciong’s style, but when asked about the name of his style, he only say it was a “Cuentada”. However it was his students who named it as the Balintawak Arnis for the purpose to identify it from the Doce Pares Arnis.

    About Delfin Lopez, his line of business was a Security Agency and his clients were some big business firms. In those days company establishment were threatened frequently by labor strikes. Delfin boasted to his clients that all his Security guards for hire is very dependable as they all have the skills of the best martial art fighting. So in order to impress them, Delfin invited all his client businessmen to watch for him demonstrating the Balintawak Arnis in their little gymnasium to show that his martial art was very sophisticated.

    In the gym, Delfin would pick Atty. Villasin as his dummy opponent of his show and in order to impress his clients, he would smack Atty. Villasin down and he did it not only once but in several occasions. Atty. Villasin would be badly beaten and humbled only for Delfin to brag about his deadly skill. Anciong was not happy for Delfin’s misdemeanor, so he taught Atty. Villasin all the techniques of fighting in a secret meeting sessions until one day in one other occasion of Delfin’s exhibition show with him, Atty. Villasin did not allow himself to be beaten again.

    He fought back and defended well and the rest was history, Delfin was then aptly vanquished. This is the story that was told to me by my teacher Teofilo Roma on accounts from Anciong Bacon, Atty. Villasin and his teacher Mr. Velez.

    Respectfully,

    Wilson R. Ceniza
     
  13. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Darth Vindicatus Supporting Member

  14. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    I can only say "smokes would always come out in the open"!
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I don't follow you?
     
  16. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    I think nobody is leading anyone. It must be possible that they are only telling honestly what they know about the things that are not yet known to all.
     
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Ah, OK. Well, Balintawak does seem to be splintered now--but then, it was always more of a club than a style, wasn't it? Is this so bad?
     
  18. Wilson

    Wilson New Member

    everyone is entitled their own opinion.... what is being told is a story that was really happening, no grudges with this people involve.... we are all brother balintawak of the same origin from the late great great great Grandmaster Venancio (Anciong) Bacon the Inventor of the art.
     
  19. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

  20. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons Member

    Why is the whole thread even up anymore? I mean GM Bacon never wrote a book or was published.

    As to the biased approach it could be someone from that lineage.
     

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