Bad style.....

Discussion in 'General' started by Jan Knudsen Jensen, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    I did visit a local club where i live and without i was told they did video record and made it look very bad they asked me to only do basic strikes and only from Balintawak (no other style), while they did the advanced from Balintawak….
    I asked them many times to remove these video clips since they make me and my teachers GM. Nick Elizar, GM. John Villasin and Master Jhun Dacayana look bad but nothing happen…..
    I even told them that if they thought i was a bad FMA/MAer to do some sparring with me and find out, not just drills, then they did send the son of one of the 4 Grandmasters and after i beat him. They asked me to fight him again and i told them to send their Grandmasters, not the son…..
    They even hand picked what video clips to use since i did disarm one of their 4 Grandmasters the day i was there, please note the video below does not show sparring either but a flow drill, where i am not allowed to do much and my opponent is allowed anything….
    I wonder what kind of Grandmasters who need to make other look bad this way to promote their own style……

    This is one of the two videos:

    LIMMAC’s Balintawak and Balintawak Sugbo

    Sincerly yours,

  2. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

  3. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    I don't know if that was against me and in that way also a claim that my teachers like GM. Nick Elizar, GM. John Villasin and Master Jhun Dacayana sold out their styles or against the one who posted this video clip without my knowledge?

    But if i am the one without skills why is it that i made a challenge to ALL 4 Grandmaster that they could do Sparring with me and no one ever did accept it (i still keep posting the challenge, as you see)?
    The sparring would even be done legal and safe, but this time with two cameras and not just one....

    What you see on the video clip with them is a stupid flow drill and i was being told only use the basic 12 strikes (and only Balintawak), but the other guy did the advanced from Balintawak.....

    I seen beginners and kids do it better then i do on that video clip because they are allowed to hit back, even i have many many videos online that looks a lot better then this....

    Sincerly yours,

  4. Guro Dave Gould



    Just a few words of friendly advice. One thing that Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite taught all of his Standard Bearers of Lameco Eskrima was that anytime that you were to be captured on Video to treat it as a fight for survival. As anyone could pick and choose the frames which they want to present as it is their video. You may wipe the floor with them during the sparring session but after the video leaves the editing room floor only frames where they are perceived as being dominating will surface and come forward telling only their version of the outcome.

    I make it a point, that if some one wants to spar with me and capture it on video that we do not where protective gear and we only use heavy rattan and all strikes will be delivered precisely with devasting effect, this way a friendly sparring session will not resurface months later with you having the appearance of having your ass conveniently handed to you by the other party involved. Take it for what it is worth... Ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
  5. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    I agree with you, but my problem was i never did see the video camera because there was standing 25-30 guys and one of them had the camera..... :(
    I just got a message after it happen saying that i could see the video with me online on Youtube.....

    But good advice you have there Dave, i always been to trusting and did learn to always show respect for other styles and teachers, when i did visit their place so they don't loose face in front of their students (if i did not like what they did, i just would not come back).

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
  6. qwertz

    qwertz New Member

    grow up
  7. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Yes it was against you. Stop whining.
  8. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    I've learned from experience that it's not a good idea to find validation through internet videos. Even under the best of circumstances (i.e., you're doing what you love and enjoying yourself) there will always be someone who wants to act like an idiot, make inane comments, etc. In your case, you're taking umbage because someone's posted something that you think makes you look bad. So what? You have to ask yourself: how many people on this forum worth your respect really gaf....

    Get off the internet and start training.


  9. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    Hi Steve,

    Well i think you are right about this: "You have to ask yourself: how many people on this forum worth your respect really gaf" and i do train a lot, else these guys would have had no interest in trying this, they already knew me.....

    But as i said i never did see the camera or accept these video clips, because a 5 year old could do it better then i do on those clips (since i am being told only basic and they do what ever)......

    But there is one good reason i tell this and that is i rather people hear what happen from me, then the lies they currently are spreading about me......

    PS. jwinch2 and qwertz, i guess you guys are what they call webwarriors (trolls).... :)

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
  10. qwertz

    qwertz New Member

    so where was the problem? if you have good basics, you should be able to react accordingly. or we have a different understanding what basics are.

    if that is your intention, go make a clip about yourself, where you look better and post it as a video response on youtube.

    if it make you feel better, believe what you want. but you have written 4 messages on the board. all 4 in this thread. so it seems that you registered yourself here just for complaining or whining. and not only here, I read your article also on your website and on that is IMHO some kind of trolling -- just because it seems that your ego is to fragile for accepting that there are moments where one looks bad -- that's unavoidable. do not take yourself to serious and stop whining just because someone has stolen your candy.
  11. rompida

    rompida Junior Member

    Jan, did it ever occur to you that maybe what was happening is that he was trying to teach you?

    I watched the video. I noticed that at several times during the play, he was stopping and correcting you, whether it be hand position, grabbing vs. checking, etc.

    Its not a good video to post on youtube, but be sure you are not confusing the intentions of the instructor versus the intentions of the person holding the camera.

    I think your best response would be to post a response to the video with one of your own showing your ability to play and apply.
  12. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Exactly. That is exactly how it came across.

    I disagree. I think the best response would be the one that our OP did not do. That is acknowledging that he was getting training from an extremely skilled man and that it was in a different system than the one that he studies and as a result he learned a good deal and is thankful for the knowledge that was shared.

    There is a video on youtube of Dan Inosanto training with Atillo Balintawak and they are doing drills that Guro Dan is obviously unfamiliar with. Did that make Guro Dan look unskilled or some how lessen him and his FMA ability? To the untrained eye or those who know nothing about FMA and who Guro Dan is, maybe. To anyone with half a brain it made him look like what he is, a man who is incredibly skilled but refuses to quit learning and training and who is willing to humble himself enough to accept training. The fact that he is willing to do that when he himself is widely accepted as one of the best practitioners in the world tells me a good deal about him as a person. The fact our OP came on here and one other forum that I am aware and trashed a bunch of people for the same thing tells me a good deal about him as a person. In fact, the title of his thread was not to complain about the situation and how it was handled, it was to trash the STYLE because he disagreed with them about something.
  13. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member


    From the little that I know about Balintawak I can say that the drill that I saw you perform was all about structure and not over-extending that structure. You can't "win" a drill like that; you can only feel your way through it and recognize when you do something well. In drills like this one with an experienced teacher, success is not going to happen very often. That's because you need a string of failures to recognize success when it comes.

    I just started shooting skeet and hired a coach because I knew I would never learn how to hit those d**m clay birds without one. For each bird that I miss he lets me know why. When I nail one he lets me know why I was successful. Hitting a target consistently means that the misses (what not to do) and hits (what to do) have become ingrained in my sub-conscious. So far there's a lot more misses than hits but it sure feels sweet when I powder one.

    Yeah, there is a sense of "let's play with the newbie" going on and gosh, wouldn't that be great if they played a clip of you beating up the instructor's son during your sparring match. That's probably not going to happen, however...

    Without knowing the group or the teacher I can guarantee you that everyone in the background that you hear laughing (including the teacher) has gone through the same experience. It's a drill, designed to teach certain attributes (such as the part where he's showing you how to suppress the stick after the backhand strike, e.g.). In this kind of drill, however, the instructor holds all the aces by design. You (and everyone else who has done something similar) are being pressured into giving a narrow range of predicable responses. If you think that you're going to look good while you're doing it, then you don't understand the nature of the drill. There is a trade-off down the line however: by placing you behind the curve on the OODA loop you're being forced to tighten up your basics. Now that's a good thing.

    You don't look "bad" in the video. You look like you're training.I'd go back, apologize for acting like such a jerk about it, and train some more. I'm not flaming you here; it's advice that I constantly need to give myself: "Empty you cup, or someone else will empty it for you."


  14. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

    -FMAT Admin
  15. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    Hi all,

    I reading your post and i think what happen here is that some of you misunderstand some things about Balintawak, first of i was told to stick to only 12 strikes and 12 blocks (that's what i called basic, i agree basic can be more then that but i was told only the 12 strikes).
    My opponent did what ever he liked from advanced Balintawak, that's not how we teach within Balintawak we don't make people look stupid in silly drills for no reason....

    We do have a lot of flow-drills where the teacher is guiding the student to improve his movement and such, but this guy does not really do that when he tells me only the 12 basic strikes, my former teachers like Grandmaster Nick Elizar and Grandmaster John Villasin did that....

    Here you can see how it looks when i am training with GM. John Villasin:

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
  16. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    I thought this was very well put Steve with sound advice for the OP!
  17. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    I guess the disconnect for me here lies in the statements that you've been making that imply that in drills of this nature there should be a "winner" and a "loser" with an "opponent" and that you've been placed at such a severe disadvantage from the get-go that you can't possibly "win."

    My point was merely that it's a given that you won't "win" this kind of drill but that it has some rather obvious advantages if you take it as an opportunity to pick up something from the instructor. FWIW I guess I look pretty bad when one of my instructors pushes me around his apartment at will but he's a pretty talented internal boxer. Occasionally, as per my "skeet shooting" analogy above I get to powder a bird, pull something off, etc. and then I know that the value of training this way is that I've learned something.

    You also state that in the groups in which you have trained "we don't make people look stupid in silly drills for no reason" and that by making the video public they have added insult to injury in a deliberate attempt to make you look stupid. I can't possibly comment on that, not knowing the people involved or their possible motivations. But I will say that it does not appear that anyone is trying to make you look foolish, and that you don't look foolish - as per my last post. The fact that you didn't "win" because the instructor had an unfair advantage is beside the point.

    I think it's also a propos to state again that trying to achieve validation through Youtube videos is a waste of time. No one here cares (or at least, should care) how good (or how bad) you may look on a video; it's the face-to-face training encounters with friends, teachers, and training partners that count in martial arts training.

    I want to end by stating that I don't wish to act as if I want to prove my point at the expense of adding to your frustration; it's obvious that you enjoy training in the FMA's and to that end I wish you the best of luck in your continued martial arts success.


  18. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    See it was thinking like that you call a good advice, that's how i ended up with these problems....

    I hold a instructor degree within Nickelstick Balintawak, The Dacayana System and i am at instructor level within the Villasin style....
    I been training in the Philippines for 4 years now and Martial Arts for 15 years.....

    I cant recognize what they did as Balintawak, that's not how we teach people (if you look to the video i posted with GM. John Villasin you will notice a difference:
    GM. Rudy who claimed to have background straight from GGM. Bacon did not even move like Balintawak, but more like a chicken.
    We move like Boxing and he did not have eye contact, that's a simple basic thing every Balintawak student learns, he looked at my feet........
    You can look at the video with GGM. Bacon, he moves different:

    The other guy GM. Carlo only did study the Villasin style and under my former Grandmaster John Villasin, who said he is no good....
    How can he be a Grandmaster then? He moves wrong, does not keep his hand up for protection or his bag straight (no balance or power)......
    His students was not even hitting the stick as they should, there was air between......
    For the camera he also put in a disarm into the group 1-5 (on group 5)......

    These guys told me that it's not good to hit after the head (since everyone did that), they suggested going for the ears....
    They also think you can kill a person by hitting the nose bone up in the brain, when i tried telling them that was not possible the son of the GM. Rudi (Ivan) told: "He know it was because his friend got killed that way by his wife"

    They never did any sparring at all, i do a lot both with NOK Knifes and Empty hands.....

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
  19. Jan Knudsen Jensen

    Jan Knudsen Jensen New Member

    It's not about winning or loosing Steve, since anyone would loose a flow-drill like that......
    But it's about reputation, that's how we sell us self as teachers within Martial Arts and the fact that i don't like to be someone they can use to gain more students.....
    I only did visit them one day, so they are not my teacher and i did not see anything but talk as i wrote above i did disarm one of their Grandmasters and beat the son of GM. Rudi in Sparring (none of these 4 Grandmaster wanted to meet me in sparring).

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
  20. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Jan what Steve said is this is a drill. You will not look as good as the instructor in a drill set they are more familiar with. It looked like they were trying to teach you. Irregardless of how you feel about their skill set your going around bad mouthing them makes you end up looking bad and reflects on your teacher and his system. You looked okay in the clip, the instructor of course looked better as that is his drill within his system. Really it is not a big deal. It looked like they were enjoying your company but after this they may not want to have anything to do with you or worse you may have burned future training opportunities with other people around the world. When you visit someone at their training you should enjoy the moment, learn what they have to offer! From the looks of it these people were not being mean to you. Having said that they may however not be so nice in the future based on your posts here and elsewhere! As I often tell people seeking advice cool off and look at it at a later date through wiser eyes!

    Wishing you all the best in your endeavors!
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010

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