Back in the Day in the San Francisco Bay - 80's -

Discussion in 'Serrada' started by Taiaha NZ, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. Taiaha NZ

    Taiaha NZ -== Banned ==-

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    1984 San Francisco ( Tasi Alo - I'm on the right side (4th behind) - ( 3rd from front)GM Robert Castro , GM Anthony Davis & Maestra Mila Davis 0 front - ( also PG Sultan Uddim is in the photo towards the back-middle)with GGM Angel Cabales ( Serrada Escrima ) in the front.
    GM Anthony Davis that brought Dan Inosanto, Cass Magda, Jaime Finch & Ted Lucay-Lucay and Rene Latosa to Fairfield,Ca. to do a seminar at Solano Community College in 1983. GM Davis had previously hosted Dan Inosanto and Richard Bustillo in Ohio in 1980.
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    I met Ted & Tanya Lucaylucay in 1983 , his wife Tanya and I are 'ohana', her grandfather did ' moro-moro' style his name- Telesporo Subing-Subing. I was living with Ahgung Tony Ramos (Kajukenbo) in Fairfield in 1983 when GM Davis had the Dan Inosanto &Ted and Tanya Lucaylucay seminar at Solano College. I had come to Fairfield ,Ca. in 1974 after I had been discharged from the US Army, it was at that time I first met GM Anthony Davis - founder of the Davis Method of Self Defense and the World Serrada Escrima Federation and Davis/Cabales Serrada Escrima System .
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    The legendary 'Kajukenbo Master' Ahgung Tony Ramos Sr. was one of GM "D"s special star demonstration guests at his "Second Annual Kali/Jeet Kune Do Seminar" held in northern California, back in 1983.
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    Rene Latosa another guest of GM D at the 1983 seminar.
    Then later that year Ted & Tanya Lucaylucay did seminar in Suisun ,Ca. at Kenpo Master Bill
    [​IMG]Chun's school that GM Davis had sponsored with the 'kokua' of Master Bill Chun Jr. Ted and his Dad ( 'Lucky Lucay-Lucay' ) already knew Ahgung Ramos from the 60's in Los Angeles when Ahgung Tony Ramos opened his first Kajukenbo school there. It was at the Solano Mall where Dan Inosanto and Cass Magda were demonstrating 'Kali' when GM Davis and myself met the future Master Wade Williams a student of GM Angel Cabales at the time, who came to represent GM Angel Cabales from Stockton and to support the event. Then in San Francisco in 1984 GM Davis scheduled a Dan Inosanto seminar which at the very last minute Dan could not attend, thats when GM Angel Cabales showed up with his Stockton crew to save the seminar. GM Gilbert Tenio & Master John Eliab attended as well as GGM Al Novak, Master Bill Tolentino and Wushing Tai Chi Master John K. Wong. Thus brought us in contact GM Angel Cabales and 'Serrada' escrima. From Ted I learned the 'Kali ' way as well as how GM Angel would do similar techniques, then thru GM Anthony Davis I received first-hand experience with GM Cabales by being the 'uke' at GM Angel's house (the Charter Way house) when I would give GM Davis a ride to Stockton from Fairfield for GM Anthony Davis' private lessons from GM Cabales. It was also in 1984 that GM Davis and myself first met the one day - GM Robert Castro, whom at the time had no background in Filipino Martial Arts when we first met him - Robert Castro has been trained by both GM Davis ( Serrada) and GGM Ernesto Presas( Kombatan) he went on to develop his own hybrid combination of Kali, Serrada Escrima & Kombatan arnis ,JKD,Boxing etc.... called"Eskabo Daan". However his claim of being underground for 25 years a fact he made sure the TV reporter for Fox news NY announced on 'air' is simply not true because of the pictures that are at the beginning of this discussion. That picture is from the Wiley book on Angel Cabales, Castro knew nothing of FMA till he met GM Davis.However Robert Castro did have previous experience in Goju Karate thru his brother Rolando Castro who trained from 'Cat'Yamaguchi. Then in 1985 we met Guro Jeff Finder after doing a demo with Angel at GM Max Pallen's karate tourney in San Leandro. Being born & raised in Hawaii I had been exposed to Hawaiian kine escrima, but I credit Guro Ted , Dan Inosanto, Jaime Finch,Uncle John K. Wong,Uncle Tony Ramos, Tasi Alo Jr. ( my Dad) ,Uncle Imo Alo, Uncle Faitala Alo, Uncle Neff Maiava, Uncle Peter Maivia, my cousin Mosooi Alo,
    Uncle Al Lolotai, Uncle Tigi Mataalii, Uncle Tino Tuiolosega, Uncle Clarence Lee, Uncle Sonny Palabrica, Uncle Charlie Kalani, Tony Arneho, Billy Nipp, MC Chris Siangco, Max Kincaid, Derek Ahsing, Jesse Lopez ( boxing ) & Anthony Davis for preparing me for GM Angel Cabales Serrada & Pedoy's Derobio Escrima I am blessed because now I am learning & connected to Pedoy's Derobio Escrima thru a friend & classmate. Blessed with being GrandMaster of GKTactical ( GKT ) Praise God thru my past history has prepared me for this great & unique style of escrima. Thats how I remember 'back in the day' ! Aloha !
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    Mahalo enjoy
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Great stuff!
     
  3. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Some of this information has been posted here before and so far no one has taken up the bait.

    I know nothing of Mr. Castro or his system but this is the third or fourth time I have seen this come up. From what I have seen of his video, he appears to be quite skilled. I take it that you are not questioning his skills, just the "underground" claims. Is that correct?

    I do not want to put words in your mouth here so if I am misunderstanding your intent please let me know.
     
  4. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-


    My cuz is just getting this-story down on the record
    !
    I think the point he is making is in the blue lettered section of the post. Another issue might be how realistic is the training shown ????????? The skills are great for the demo.Training with live blade is my other issue with the video and I know that
    it really depends on who is teaching the 'live' blade class. Many who now teach FMA don't have live blade experience. You can see it when they move anyone who has been in or seen a real stabbing or knife fight knows it isn't fancy at all but right to the Point! There is also training with 'live' blade with the lights out!! Builds sensitivity etc... a question -
    In a real confrontation is not one subject to your immediate environment and conditions ? Many times your confrontation with one or more people may not be in an ideal setting.
    Example : One finds himself in a dimly lit basement of a building, an argument happens between 2 persons and a confrontation ensues with only one way out and YOU pull out a 'live' knife to defend yourself because you have been training in FMA just to get it kicked out of your hand and now the guy's picked you up by your body and is trying to use your head as a battering ram against a wall cause he is bigger than you and pissed cause you pulled a live 'blade' to defend yourself and all you can now do is kick the person get loose and escape.
    Thats why one's need to train 'live' because in the REAL world one will face a REAL blade with real issues of dealing with handling a 'sharp live blade with control! People don't kill with a 'TRAINER' - You are what you practice !!!! Yes safety, caution and good common sense with honest testing and evaluation with techniques for 'live blade encounters can prepare a FMA student for what they are coming to you to learn in the first place - staying alive in Nasty real life threatening situations !


     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  5. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    I don't see anything in the highlighted section about realistic versus demo training or using live blades though I think those are both valid points worthy of discussion in another thread. What I do see is questioning about someone's claims as to the lineage of their style of FMA.
     
  6. patrickdpr

    patrickdpr New Member


    I completely agree! on top of that GM Castro is, from what I hear, a very nice, and interesting individual.

    As far as I can see, he has been around for 25 years. I never herd him claim that he has been teaching his own system for 25 years, or teaching period for 25 years.

    Does it really matter?

    Is there some other issue here between GM Castro and who ever it is that's posting this stuff?
     
  7. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    No idea on the last question and I have heard the same things as yourself in terms of Mr. Castro being a nice person. Like I said, it has now come up multiple times on this forum in recent months, but as of yet has not generated any serious discussion on the topic. Since people keep bringing it up I figure there must be some concern or interest in this issue.

    My impression based on the information which has been presented is that there are people who feel that Mr. Castro is not giving credit to those with whom he studied. As those people appear to be the same people that the persons raising this issue have studied with, I guess they feel as if their instructor or systems are being slighted in some way.

    I have no way of knowing whether or not my impressions are correct and if this is indeed what the original poster intended to convey or if that is what previous posts on this same topic were focused upon. Hopefully the OP and/or Mr. Castro will address the issue in a forthcoming manner. In addition, if my take on the meaning behind this thread is off, I hope that the original poster will correct my misunderstanding and set the record straight.

    As for whether or not this really matters, I would suppose that in the big picture, no it probably doesn't. Mr. Castro's skills from what I have seen, appear to be quite genuine and by all accounts he is a dynamic teacher as well. Furthermore, many FMA personalities have created blend systems based on study in multiple systems before branching out on their own. If that is what Mr. Castro has done, I have absolutely zero problem with that, but I do feel that those teachings should be acknowledged and credit given where due. Remy Presas and Dan Inosanto have gone similar routes and it has not diminished my opinion of them as martial artists or teachers in any way.

    As I said, I may be interpreting this entire situation improperly and that may not be what the original poster was intending to convey though it certainly seems that way to me. I have dog in this fight other than interest in FMA in general and expanding my own knowledge about the various systems out there.

    Did you interpret the original post in the same way that I did?
     
  8. escrima1

    escrima1 New Member

    back in the day

    enjoyed the pictures
     
  9. patrickdpr

    patrickdpr New Member


    Basically, I think so. I, too, wish someone from Eskabo Daan would just clarify what GM Castro means by 25 years underground so everyone's satisfied.
     
  10. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Yep. I think that would be helpful as well.
     
  11. Taiaha NZ

    Taiaha NZ -== Banned ==-

    Since I'm in the islands things I heard here about Eskabo - what I think is being said is that GM Castro is a LIAR !
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  12. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Thank you for clarifying your meaning...
     
  13. pahhhoul

    pahhhoul New Member

    Being a student of GM Castro's system, my interpretation of "25 years underground" is that he's taught under the radar of the general public.
    Teaching out of his home, in parks, etc.
    That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Now that he's opened a school, his system is now out of the garage and open to the general public.

    Hope that provides a little insight.

    To the OP, thank you for posting the back in the day pictures.
    It's great to see some of the amazing and talented people that have been in San Francisco.
     
  14. pahhhoul

    pahhhoul New Member

    doh!

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    I forgot to add, that the above statement was of my own personal opinion.
     
  15. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    It means that 25 years ago Castro couldn't have been teaching anything but conga drumming cause that all he had experience in then 25 years ago and had no idea of what Escrima, Filipino Martial Arts, Arnis,, the picture was taken 25 years ago that Castro is in. Yes one could say that he was underground - underground to knowing about his own culture. Just be accurate about the facts and the real truth when other people are involved in your life. When Castro said 25 years underground teaching its as if those who actually first taught him about FMA never even existed. Thats why the 'core' of his style Eskabo Daan is so similar to Serrada escrima. The story in the post being questioned is telling how Castro first came into contact with FMA and GM Davis thru whom Castro received training and instruction in Davis/Cabales Serrada System thats how he met GGM Angel and other pictures and documents will provide more proof of what is claimed. Thats why I wondered what he meant by that statement that started this whole thread. Pictures of Homer will not stop the TRUTH because one bad part of this FMA thing is BAD for all of FMA, thats why TRUTH about FMA is so important for all of us!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  16. pahhhoul

    pahhhoul New Member

    GM Castro responding to Stixmaster and any other interested parties:

    I do not respond to negative comments about FMA or myself to the public.
    I will not say anything negative about any FMA art or its practitioners to the public.
    We are all entitled to our own opinion and this is not my way.

    I wish peace and happiness to all.
    Happy holidays and god bless,

    GM Robert Castro

    PS... if anyone is interested in other opinions about myself, please feel free to click on the following links.

    link 001
    link 002
    link 003
    link 004
    link 005
    link 006
     
  17. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    I don't think anyone on this thread or any other that I am aware of have suggested that you are not a skilled practitioner or a good teacher. What they have suggested is that you are not being truthful about your own history and are not giving proper credit to those who taught you your skills.

    I have no way of knowing whether or not this is true and those links, while certainly complementary towards yourself, do not address that issue at all.

    Are we to take it that you are unwilling to address the issue of your own history? If so, I would have a difficult time understanding why that might be. I don't see where anyone is asking you to be negative about any FMA or any person at all. All I see is people asking you to clarify statements about your own history when it comes to FMA.

    As someone who has become very passionate about FMA in general but does not know your style or the other styles in question, I would be interested in hearing your side of this situation and a more detailed description of how you attained your own skills than what may be found on your organization's website. If you are truly interested in the good of FMA, it would seem that you would delight in giving credit to your teachers and being open and honest about where you have come from. Maybe I am crazy here but that doesn't seem to add up very well.
     
  18. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-


    Its not about opinions about Castro that is the issue, the issue is about TRUTH ! Those opinions if anyone noticed are recently dated, politically motivated by men who never taught Castro. Does he really move like GGM Presas or more like Serrada ???? I agree with the poster who posted that its about the truth of where you came from and who you learned from and the accuracy of your facts. For instance the fact years ago printed on Eskabo flyers said you trained or knew Tony'theTiger' Lopez former boxing World Champ. well Mr Lopez said he never knew who Castro was and was considering legal channels in dealing with Castro when GM Davis who does know Tony Lopez help Castro, GM Davis is the man one who taught Castro Serrada escrima the whole beginning ciriculum comes from what he learned from Davis. Those letters do not apply to the issue at hand thus proves the point !!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing is more negative about FMA when the truth is not being represented right. Thats why this is being discussed in I feel a respectful manner Yet it seem that Castro continues to HIDE behind his screen of mis-truths. Just wanting to clear it all up so those that train from us know their history. TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why this whole discussion is posted on blogs and major martial art networks on web including MySpace & Facebook just about this issue of TRUTH, when Robert are you going to admit the truth that without GM D you would not be where you're at now. GGM Presas wasn't your first teacher and your utter disrespect for that should also be visited upon you and you organization for the perpetuation of you untruths !
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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  19. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_ny/091020_Eskabo
     
  20. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    This is the video where he stops the reporter to emphasize the point that he been underground for 25 years.Its about in the middle of the video !!!
    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_ny/091020_Eskabo
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009

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