Aztec Eagle and Jaguar Warrior Societies

Discussion in 'Misc. Stick Arts' started by geezer, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. geezer

    geezer Member

    I was just chewing the fat with some other escrimadores, including some Mexican American guys in our group. The subject came up of the parallels between the cultures of the Philippines and Mexico during the early part of the Spanish conquest around 1520 ...Lapu Lapu and the battle of Mactan, Cuauhtemoc and the fight for Tenochtitlan... and someone brought up just how fierce those "indio" warriors were --in both cultures. The elite Aztec Eagle and Jaguar societies were like the Spartans. Those guys were born and bread to die in battle. And they fought with flattened ironwood sticks, like big garrotes, but edged with obsidian that was sharper than steel. They must have developed some incredible fighting arts. Did it really all die out, have any techniques survived? Has anyone here looked into the ancient martial traditions of Meso America?
     
  2. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    Geezer,

    Since 2000 I have conducted alot of Lameco Eskrima seminars in Mexico and I have spent a considerable amount of time more since 1972 exploring Mexicos Ruins; be it Mexica (Aztec), Olmec, Toltec, Totonac, Mayan, Chihimec, Huastec, Tlahuica or Teotihuacan in Meso-American culture.

    The only thing that remains of the Mexica culture (Aztec) are derived from the few remaining "codices" that have recently surfaced or few others that the Spanish did not destroy as well as paintings and depictions of day to day life found on most temples, ball courts and pyramids. The Mexica people were never called "Aztec" until after the Spanish occupation when they were renamed as "Aztec" by the Spanish which has stuck for all of these centuries.

    The Mexica (Aztec) and their cousins the "Chichimecs" grew out of the destruction of the Toltec empire settling first in Tanayuca, Tlatelolco and then to Tenocthtitlan, all within the radius of Modern Mexico city which were all separate Islands until the Spanish occupation where the lands were then drained and became as one.

    The Mexica were notorious for their weapons as recorded in books and other accounts written by Hernan Cortez and some of the other "Conquistadores" who fought in those campains. Obsidian was always a strong material used for war as well as ceremony by all of the Meso-American cultures and societies but most of the Mexica weapons were just gnarley compared to the rest. Wood based war clubs with sharp pieces of spear like obsidian atached were the most destructive. In addition they used alot of stone, whale bone and Jade war clubs and obsidian knives and spear tips to good effect.

    It is sad that most of the Mexica fighting system did not survive as did the Pilipino fighting systems during their very similar occupation by the spanish. The only thing that you will find in Mexico, Central America and South America would be Machetes used solely for agricultural work or cutting cane but not used in a skilled fighting art so to speak.

    The only exceptions are in Venezuela they have a system in place resembling Kali but that was probably influenced from the many Pilipino Sailers who along with their Spanish Captains and officers visited the region on Spanish Galleons during trips from Manila and Madrid to retrieve Mayan and Incan Gold from Portobelo, Panama from about 1530 on. At that time the settlements of Caracas (Venezuela) and Cartagena (Colombia) were first supplied by these galleons before going on to Portobelo to load gold headed for Spain used to finance their wars with England, France, Portugal and Morroco.

    As well in Argentina there is the Goucho blade fighting system (Falcon) most likely a derivative of Spanish Navajo or "Gitano" knife fighting from the streets of Madrid. They focus on the long knife, cape and bolo throwing from horse back as well as being dismounted and standing their ground.

    I hope that this helps answer some of your questions. Go well, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
     
  3. geezer

    geezer Member

    Thanks for the info.

    Thanks for the informative response. I've seen some of that gaucho long knife and bolo stuff in old Argentine movies. By the way, this same thread was transferred over to MartialTalk on their "FMA's on the Web" section and "Steel Tiger" also posted and in-depth response that people might want to reference.
     

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