Arnis de Mano?

Discussion in 'Dekiti Tirsia Siradas' started by jwinch2, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    When was "Arnis de Mano" added to the name for DTS? Has that always been there or is it a recent addition? It appears to be a recent addition as GM Tortal's website has it while the DTS website has "Kali" in the address...

    It doesn't matter to me either way. Actually, I kind of like "Arnis de Mano" but at the end of the day you can call it what you want in my view as long as it gets the job done.

  2. NAGA

    NAGA Member

    What is in a Name?

    Well I was there when GT "Nene" Tortal switced from Kali back to Arnis de Mano, Remember back in the day GT Leo switched from Arnis too Kali. Frankly, GT "Nene" has put his art through many name changes. Nevertheless, it is still their familiy art and they can call it whatever they like. On a certian level the change happened due to a minor emphisis on history and what use to be done in the past.....

  3. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    Thanks. I was just curious as to when and why. It really doesn't matter to me either way. Cheers,
  4. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Origionally it was called Arnis at least that is what I was told and was referenced in Mark Wiley's book. So a name change to Kali and then back to Arnis De Mano. I agree with John that the Grand Tuhon can call his family system whatever he wishes and that is fine by me! ;)
  5. jwinch2

    jwinch2 Member

    No argument on my end, I was just curious about the genesis of it.
  6. Phil Mar Nadela

    Phil Mar Nadela New Member Supporting Member

    Funny cause my guro calls his club Kali Arnis De Mano :)
  7. NAGA

    NAGA Member

    Generic it is...

    Hello All,
    Usually I just call it Tortal Family art, just to aviod the political pitfalls that get laid down the trail of truth when it comes to Martial arts politics... In reality when it comes to FMA there are so many local dialects and terms for the art one can get bogged down in various words that sound alike but do not mean anything remotely the same. Not too mention here in North America, we have a great deal of mythbuilding and full on fantasy stories being passed along; sometimes one needs to step back from oneself.

    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  8. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    John I think that is really a good way to go about it. I too like the "Tortal Family Art" in that it is very sufficient!
  9. NAGA

    NAGA Member

    Whatever it takes...

    Hello Brian,
    Thanks, since this fourm has been dead lately, how about the non name related aspects mentioned earlier like getting the job done. GT Nene surely does this through his incredible timing and exact placement of technique. In the end whatever you want too call it, the real secret is just dong techinque until you can do it even in your sleep. So, I guess I am saying there really are no super secrets or unknowns within what is done no matter what it is called....

    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  10. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    Nothing has actually been changed, It has been Dekiti-Tirsia Siradas Arnis De Mano for decades. Even is for look at the old dioveos from the 80's with GT nene and Tuhon Bill together you will see that the videos are labeled as "Dekiti-Tirsia Siaradas Arnis de Mano" That was the name of the official system before GT Nene ever came to the states with Mata-as na Tony McGregor and we are sticking with tradition. GT Nene QUOTE: "I use the term "Kali" occasionally so that the general public that does not not what Arnis/Arnes really is, will not think that my family treasure is only a stick art." Just like when he uses GM/Grandmaster instead of Mata-hari Tuhon. With the internet being so common now, people should not have any problem finding that Arnis does not mean, "Limited System". There are two old/traditional Hiligaynon general term that Keith and I would like to start using instead of Arnis, but we have to wait on GT Nene's decision to which one or even if he wants to use them. This is the reason the DTS uniforms say, "An Ilonggo Tradition". We are going traditional on everything and trying to avoid coomercialization of the system to preserve it in detail. This year, Keith, Shaun, Nik, Russell, Lisa, Robene, John and I were blessed enough to learn double knife and single vs. double knife contradas and recontradas as well as two new, basic footwork patterns with dozens of variations for applications and most of the Hawakan, Dumog and Tapado. The double knife contradas do not resemble the single as much as I thought they would. We were also fortunate enough to learn two more footwork patterns that GT rarely uses anymore that was taught to him by his elder brother and grandfather. It was mind boggling t5o say the least. So I tthink we are all going to stick with tradition. ; )
  11. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    It also has always had "Trankada" on the and too. Dekiti-Tirsia Siaradas Trankeda Arnis de Mano, but we had to stop somewhere so it would all fit GT's incorporated logo here in the states.
  12. blindside

    blindside student

    What does the "trankada" portion translate to?


  13. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Trankada translates to the use of full body locks or locking applications as taught in the Buno/Dumog aspects of the FMA.. As most of us should know, when we lock up an attacker, we don't concentrate on a single lock as in some other systems.. In the eskrima systems that I teach, we concentrate on a minimum of three joints to completely immobilize the attacker and maintain control or we break and move on with our counter offensive actions.
  14. NAGA

    NAGA Member

    Trankada Onomatopoeia

    Hello all,
    In my many conversations with GM Tortal, and mind you his English is not his first language Trankada as a word rarely came up. When he did use the word which means "To lock" he used it as an expression to mean "to lock" (Like the use of a door) the opponents ability too attack or counterattack. Just as Siradas means to close (like close the door) on the opponents ability too attack or counter attack, GM Tortals use of these words as idiom is somewhat interchangable. Nevertheless, GM Tortal has many useful and interesting grappling techniques. So I hope this helps add another dimension to the conversation.

  15. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    Thanks John! ;)
  16. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    I have actually heard GT Nene use the word Trankada several times in our detailed discussion of the system and its history/heritage. GT refers to "Trankada" as meaning "Self-Defense", normally(but not always of course) in a non lethal manner. As Bill was kind enough to explain earlier with controlling someone. Because killing is so easy, and controlling/manipulating someone that is trying to kill you without destroying them takes true mastery like GT Nene has developed. I hope some day to "Graduate To Empty-Hand" to the level he has some day, but again, I can only keep working and hope. : )
  17. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman FMA Talk Founder Supporting Member

    Yep, the same in Cebuano (sp). Manong Ted would teach us (Trankas) locking techniques. Manong Remy used the word the same way as well.
  18. R. Mike Snow

    R. Mike Snow Chiseled Edge

    So obviously it is more common than most people realize. Interesting.................
  19. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    We know more than we let on knowing.. In all the years I have been involved with the FMA and in particular with the Modern arnis guys in Pampanga, GM Reston's Sinko Tiros and Balintawak and now Dekiti Tirsia, I am still amazed at all the stuff that is coming out of the woodwork.. It helps to be able to get to the source of these little tricks of the trade and experience them first hand and not being watered down by people who have limited training in them.. Now that my secret is out for living on Guam for as long as I have been, I must confess that I am still blown away by some of the older Manongs in the provinces who were not well known and just taught because it was one way of them to put food on the table for their families.. I still prefer to go to these guys and not having smoke blown up my tail pipe with all the hype and search for the hidden secrets of the FMA (yeah, Right) of some of the instructors who have made the US based students cash cows for their benefit.. Simplicity is what works and going to the provinces to train with these individuals opens up the eyes of the geographically disadvantaged FMA students who were brought up in the comfort of airconditioned schools.. This training is a serious eye opening experience for those who decide to take the plunge and travel to the Philippines for first hand training and knowledge in the martial culture of the Philippines..
  20. Bill,

    I have had the experience of training with an old Manong in the province and training with an instructor who some could claim fits your other description...

    Just the other week I had a saddening experience. I went along to watch a connected group and was basically told I would have to pay for the sessions. No doubt, the price I pay would be in excess of what the "Local" students pay. This is despite me living here 4 years and struggling to run a small business located here.

    IMHO it is just "The Filipino way". I'm sure we've heard before tales of Fil-Ams etc being charged more than "the locals" when they return. I get it practically every day from Taxi drivers to people selling Nippa huts. It's endemic. My wife was talking on facebook about how hard it is to apply for a loan here (the bank require bio-metric data for like $2k:laugh:) and one of her "friends" said "Why do you need money, you're rich"?

    Oft times, the people quibbling over price go home and then do seminars for $50+ a pop with the knowledge gained. Meanwhile the instructors are trapped here as getting a visa for USA / UK / Australia is almost impossible without money. So there are economic considerations too.

    The old Manaong I trained with had a professional full-time job. When he taught me (after an interview in front of his family) it was more to share what he had learned from his family. It was not a business.

    Anyway, it's been discussed before and I'm sure you can relate. I'm probably catching you up in God Children now :laugh:

    BTW - We have a "Trankada" in Bahad Zu'bu. I am not sure if it originates from Kali Ilustrisimo or not. I will have to ask GM Yuli. It is a series of rapid, connected strikes which do control the opponent and render them inert. I will post back if I can get a definition.


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