Arjuken??

Discussion in 'Kombatan' started by Brother John, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    "The Management is delighted to have so many knowledgeable FMA practitioners and teachers here, and hopes only for continued positive and friendly discussion of the arts!"

    -Arnisador
    -FMAT Admin

    Thank you for seeing that, I just had to respond to the post just because the post brought his personal problems on this forum !! Thanks again
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2007
  2. kindred

    kindred New Member

    no more laundry , just fma talk , we aussies speak our minds and sometimes it gets up peoples skirts ,it gets us in trouble but we do not back away from a fight , that is why we are indeard with the fma systems of fighting no bull just bite , get in my way and prepare yourself for a fight, we love it
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2007
  3. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Now that speaks volumes of how many insecurities you do have , Mate! However the reason the world is in the condition it is in is due to that very philosophy. Look at the Middle East and just how much progress has the Western world achieved ?? Just remember that when you get held up waiting in an airport going thru screening. It just doesn't add up! I'll take my stand with GGM Presas against any derogatory comments from anywhere on this Earth ! Cheers! Peace out!
     
  4. armas

    armas Junior Member

    Here's my opinion on the Australian connection with GGM Ernesto Presas. Chris Traish has been one of the most influential martial artist to help GGM to spread his art. To me he is still family. Great person/martial artist.He had most of his students who wanted to learn from GGM to come to the Philippines to train with us(Cristino Vasquez, Bambit Dulay,Mark Santos, Daniel Rollo, Myself, Jan Presas). Too bad though we lost Chris in the journey. I don't know what happen. Michael D'arcy another great person/brother/martial artist. Helped GGM too in his spreading of the arts. I thank Andy E. for helping spread the arts now. We should all be happy we are helping each other. Politics should not be a big thing. But that's just me. Roger Solar is another talent that was let go for a stupid reason. I know some of the stories. But we don't want to go there. I hope Roger the best. Because all the above mentioned people are great people. Politics aside. Roger was up and coming when I left. HE is such a big help to Jan Presas in training. They used to be like brothers. Too bad they are not the same now. But I can attest to Roger's skill, attitude and knowledge. I felt bad when they let him go. These people are all our brothers in the art of GGM Presas. Be it Kombatan, Arnis Presas style, Modern Arnis.These are just phases of GGM Ernesto's evolution. Why give a big fuss over the name. To tell you the truth, I bet Chris will agree with me if I said there is no difference in the curriculum that the new Kombatan group is learning from the old. It's just the name that changed. I always get this question. What's the difference between KOmbatan and Arnis Presas style or Modern Arnis. I would say it's the spelling. It is all the same in the end.
     
  5. kindred

    kindred New Member

    well to all it seems i have opened a can of worms , didnt really mean to things just popped out thats all ..to stix i dont really have insecurities mate and the middle east is due to oil , religion and power , i am into neither and i didnt start the war , i think in the letters i showed no malice to ggm presas or jan enjoyed training with them in 99 and we had a good laugh would like the subject to end here and now. things behind the scenes will be sorted out that way to armas nicely written letter , if i have offended anyone outside this sector i apologise was never the intention all the best to you all and your familys
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    I'm sure no one means to offend. Communicating in this medium, without voice inflection and body language, makes it all too easy for misunderstandings to arise. It seems like we're reaching a better spot now, so I hope the conversation will continue!
     
  7. Combat Kali

    Combat Kali New Member

    I agree with Armas, there are still many great people in the Ernesto camp. Kindred was just responding to what he considered slander against his coach and friend of 18 years. He has no insecurities and quiet humble as complimented by those that know him. This curse has been going on since brother vs brother. I speak with Chris and we hold the same view as does Roger Solar.The death of Rogers wife of an asthma attack in the Manillas street in front of her children was a tragedy. I paid for the funeral as Ernesto had failed to do so as promised purely to give the Dignity she deserved.This lead to the erosion of our friendship spurned by spouse and son.I have spent countless hours with Ernesto - training,talking, interviewing, asking and massaging. I like him but have certain issues over organisational behaviour.

    Stikman - History shows that martial concepts from Japanese, Korean, Malayasian & Indonesian to name a few have been incorporated into FMA. Is it your view that if this concept is reversed it is an outrage to Filipino Culture ?
    "Western mind" just a name but with over 1000 school children enjoying FMA as part of cirriculum surely a positive for all FMA.
    Austrasian Filipino Combat Arts Federation incorporated is open to all FMA regardless of affiliation and is provides a platform for Filipino Instructors to access goverment support.Many have gained employment and friendships and fiscal viability to host overseas instructors to further promote FMA.
    This is achieved by a voluntery board.
    Perhaps you can share your success in USA FMA promotion.
    You might be concerned with Anthony Davis letter to Rob Castro
    Is this the same Rob Castro recently promoted to 9th degree at camp ?
    OUCH!
    Always research Imua,It was Ernesto that taught me to do so.
    Hugh Doherty
     
  8. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Yes

    Hey Kombat Kali it is the same GM Castro that was promoted by GGM Ernesto Presas, it was GGM Presas that personally taught and trained him one on one. That letter I found out there in the world wide web and thought how ironic for Anthony Davis after he had that letter posted back in 2005, that now in 2007 this promotion takes place. That letter shows the whole world that he is no longer associated with or affiliated with or connected with Anthony Davis ! GM Castro has known GGM Presas and his son for over 12 years. Right now he and GM Concepcion are preparing a seminar this Saturday in Vallejo,Ca. that will start bringing FMA together with a voluntary fellowship that will help all styles to better communicate for the sake of FMA. As things progress my FMA brother we will get that info out probably thru PG Dowd's FMA Digest. Now that I have read your new post and can better see what you are clearly saying, I say its all good, Mate! GGM Ernesto A. Presas has really been gracious to us here in Northern California to which we are eternally grateful to GGM and his family. We are all human and we all need to truly learn the power of forgiveness, now that itself will start all of FMA to come together on a positve note. Being a realist one can strive for 100% but to at least get 70% involved now that would be nice for all. All we want to do is promote all FMA period. I post as part of my research, look at how much info we have just shared. Peace out ! No worries, Cheers !
     
  9. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    No offense to anyone, but the way promotions are given right now in Kombatan is not really nice. I've met ppl. with 2 Months of Kombatan-Training who had the 2. Dan, and guys with 4 Months of training who had the 4th dan. And others with close to no training at all who were masters.
    Nowadays I think you've to look more for experience then rank when it comes to Kombatan and if they really know what they're doing.

    I understand giving ranks to promote the art in new countries... but I dont like it!

    Ps: 9th Dan after 12 years? I know you cant say NO to a promotion by your GGM, but I wouldnt advertise it either.
     
  10. Combat Kali

    Combat Kali New Member

    forgiveness

    Stixmaster - I know Lito, a great bloke and am pleased for him. He is always promoting his culture and I support him.

    The split between Ernesto and Roger Solar was not of either choosing.They enjoyed each others company.The current Sec Gen would have a chance of
    healing the wounds of both. In life we have to make decisions that are uncomfortable that dictate who we are as a human being and role model.
    This was one of those times for me.
    Leo Gaje (PKT) and Roland Dante ( eskrima, arnis masters) have been superb.

    Twist - I and others hear your concern. Roger Solar uses Remy's requirements; 2 years between 1-4 and 3 years thereafter based on 6 hours per week. I use hours trained for equality. My personal view that only indigenous should have the title of Grandmaster but I am old school in etiquette. When the business of Martial Arts becomes the priority quality will suffer. It is challenging for those in a developing country not to be seduced by wealth (real and imagined) for this reason you need to look at the issue holistically and strive to achieve the level of competency worthy. Ernesto awarded me a level, I was uncomfortable about the process so I had Roger stay and train me to that level for a month in 2003. He returned for 3 months recently to host a camp and tournament and further grade people in his Birada system .
    Roger is one of the best instructors in the "Presas Style" due to his teaching methods.I believe the next camp 2009 will be in Germany.
    The disadvantage of instructor promotions is that students don't receive instructional quality not only practical but emotionally as well. Mis truthful Marketing creates a whirlpool that only pulls down the principals of all martial arts leaving the unsuspecting student unfulfilled & disillusioned. This process has been applied in other systems( Korean, Chinese) as well with similar shortcomings. ask When ? by Who ? What did you perform ? when assessing credentials.
    Hope this helps.
    Hugh Doherty
    www.aima-and-health.org
     
  11. johnzag

    johnzag Junior Member

    Hugh,

    this was probably not the best forum to have a conversation with each other for the first time in 4 years.

    I think we will both agree that we have very different opinions and thoughts on past events and will just have to leave it at that.

    With regards to comments on my gradings you yourself graded me to my first degree and there after all ranks have come directly from Grand Master.
    I am happy with where I am at so is my Instructor and most importantly the Presas Family & IPMAF Family as a whole.

    On my part I have done my best to support IPMAF, Kombatan and the Presas Family. I have traveled to the philippines in 2003 (with yourself) and returned in 2005 and in April/May of this year 2007. Kombatan Australia which I am a senior member of has also brought Master Jan out to Australia in 2004 and Grand Master, Master Jan and Master Michael out in 2006.

    Good Luck with your endeavours with IPEAC and the promotion of Filipino Martial Arts in Australia (and around the world). At the end of the day it has always been my wish to see the Filipino Martial Arts (and in my case Kombatan) grow as I feel they have so much to offer everyone.

    To Peter sorry if I offended you was not my intention but we are in a similar boat we both have instructors that we respect immensely and are sometimes dissapointed when comments are made. Peace.

    Cheers everyone and hopefully we can concentrate on some healthy FMA discussion now.

    Thanks,

    Johnny.
     
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    That's what we're hear for! It'd be interesting to hear more about people who are still teaching Arjuken separately from Kombatan.
     
  13. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Your quote maybe true for you but in this case it doesn't apply. If you trained with someone of GGM Presas' knowledge for 12 years one on one and had other experience with FMA prior, I could see that promotion. You also have to see to believe that GM Castro created his own style called Eskabo Daan, that is part of it as well. Everything in life just doesn't nicely fit into a neat package there are always exceptions and in the case of GM Robert Castro, he is an exception. Please check out his style,speed and accuracy, you will see why he is 9th Dan, like Hugh states in his post after yours, he knows GM Lito Concepcion as well as Master Alex France SG Kombatan,they will vouch for this promotion,so these promotions are not like you've decribed at all.I'll be seeing them all tomorrow at their seminar,I'm sure you'll get to read about it in the next FMA Digest past events section. Don't follow rumors or heresay but go get the facts or like Hugh said do the research. GO and meet these different instructors get background info on the style you will be seeing and don't be naive, ask the hard questions, then you will know if its for real or not. We are not advertising the promotion at all, however I'll say that it is a response that has been due for sometime now. Oh yes one can turn down a promotion from the GrandMaster if one wants too. We know its not in the rank but the total person, skill, heart and mind with some character. Cheers !
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2007
  14. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    Oh, I DO know that there are a lot of ppl. who've been with GM Ernesto Presas for a long time now. But (since I'm also involved in Kombatan for quite a few years now) I also DO know that the way of giving certificates/promotions did change.
    After all I just met ppl here with Dan-Certificates after few months of training. Or have been promoted through the Dans within weeks.
    I cant see how that does any good.

    (But I didnt want to imply that Mr. Castro is not good in what he's doing. I dont know him and cant say anything about his knowledge. But for me, GM is a title you cant just buy - and there are ppl now who became GMs in Kombatan within a few years after meeting GM Ernesto for the first time. I actually like the jap. way to give Dans (after all its a japanese title.. or else call it Lakan) - 2 years waiting for 2. Dan, 3 years for 3. Dan, ...
    If you sum it up (for a 'normal' guy):
    Lets say 5 years for 1. Dan, then as many years as the Dan-degree... that would be 49 Years to 9th Dan. Now lets say someone starts Kombatan at the age of 10, then he would be 9th Dan at 59 .. thats actually an age and an effort I call worthy of the title Grandmaster.
    But then again, thats just my opinion and I honestly think you dont need any certificates.
    But IF you want certificates, at least make them worth the paper they're written on.)

    Sorry.. really didnt want to get into such a political argument. But imho whats happening right now is really really bad for the reputation of Kombatan.

    Ps: I dont want to offend anyone ... I'm just bitching about the situation.
    Pps: Since you brought it up. How did the promotion work. One Dan-degree after the other.. or was there skipping of degrees as I've seen it happen?
    Ppps: I like your signature. Somehow it fits the discussion.
     
  15. johnzag

    johnzag Junior Member

    When I spoke to Michael Darcy in 2006 at the world abroad camp in melbourne he is blending most of the arts he has trained in and passing it on to his students however they still grade in Karate (Arjuken). More emphasis on the mano mano and the Japanese Shotokan Kata's but they still do a lot of the basic stick work.

    I think Chris Traish is also teaching Arjuken as well hence why GM graded him to his 7th Dan in Arjuken Karate.
     
  16. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    no more replies?
     
  17. armas

    armas Junior Member

    I agree with Hugh and Twist. Promotion in our group is bad. But like we said that is the wish of GGM Presas. I sometimes don't agree but who am I to stop this? I just try to keep the quality of teaching in my own way. I have been with GM since 89 but I don't believe in rank. To me it's about my passion for the arts. Whatever I learned from GGM Presas I teach the way it was taught to me. I feel it is sad to see so many promotions going on in our group. Hopefully, they would try to train harder to get to whatever level they should be. That is why I hate rank. Back in our times. Rank was given later as an honor. We did not think of it too much.
     
  18. StixMaster

    StixMaster -== Banned ==-

    Thats why it is good not to be in charge or be a founder of a style , cause everyone always complains of one thing or another. If we all could create an effective system of Filipino Martial Arts then we could promote ourself. Truth is in combat and not in rhetoric, thats why back in the day, it was settled that way. When one is fighting, one should be totally focus on the exact here and now or one will get injured badly, thats motivation enough. Talking is graet for communication but in fighting one sees the clear truth that my style works or doesn't work(trial & error method). GGM Presas is the 'man' he calls the shots, I'm just glad for the knowledge not the rank!!
     
  19. animal_stylez

    animal_stylez New Member

    This is a very interesting thread, please keep responding as I'm interested in the different view points everyone has! :) Some great points have been brought up here, but has anyone or can anyone bring these up to GGM?

    Respectfully,

    a_s
     
  20. The Fighting Edge

    The Fighting Edge New Member

    My brother recieved rank in ARJUKEN via my Modern Arnis Instructor since he was better suited to that training. This was way back... was this just a individual move by our instructor or was rank given specifically in "Arjuken" elsewhere or by GM Ernesto Presas at some point?

    "Guro John Daniels has over twenty years of experience in the martial arts. He holds the rank of 7th Dan Arnis and Arjuken Karate under Grandmaster Roberto Presas."

    Is the key term Arjuken "Karate"? Rather than rank in Arjuken?

    Best Regards,

    Jason
     

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