Are the FMA fundamentally incompatible with boxing?

Discussion in 'General' started by DonKey, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. DonKey

    DonKey New Member

    Look at the stance height, foot placement, live/checking/secondary hand, hammer fists, elbows, guntings and you have the recipe for ruining a boxing coaches day. Switch places and the reverse tends to be true as well. If bangkil chimes in here I'm sure he can attest to what a pain I was/am to teach.

    Should we rid ourselves of the term filipino boxing?
  2. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Mainstream boxing are only fore-handed strikes... Very unreal in a fight... If you're talking about Dumog and it being called Filipino boxing I think it's just a way for people who don't quite understand the concept to grasp what it is...
  3. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "Incompatible".

    I only have a brief experience of boxing. Every weekend some foreign guys would gather at a gym in Taiwan. I went along and the coach taught some techniques but it was mostly sparring with just gloves and gum shield. It often got a bit out of hand as these things are likely to do...

    I think he kind of threw me to the wolves as he made me spar all the other guys almost immediately. Through my previous study of Latosa Escrima and adapting some Wing Chun principles I was able to embarrass some of the guys and hold my own against the rest. One particular ex-college Football player / bouncer gave me a good beating but he must have outweighed me by 70lbs!

    I found it interesting to use the rising / falling power generation from the Latosa system and used it to modify my jab / lead hand so it had a bit of sting. From the WC I also rolled my shoulder forward to extend my range which also caught one guy out pretty good.

    So I don't think FMA is "Incompatible". It's just fighting and as long as you follow the rules of the game then there's no problem.

    I might add that I still can't box for **** though...heh heh
  4. Killbot

    Killbot Sereeus Biznus

    Dumog is the grappling stuff. Panatakuan or Suntakan is the filipino boxing stuff.

    And I think they are pretty compatible, boxing and FMA. As long as you are training it right and not relying on big gloves for defense and bobbing and weaving so low your training in a risk to eat knees in the head or something, it works well.
  5. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    I would have to say NO to both... First, in the FMA there are quite a few different approaches to empty-handed work, some more, some less readilly able to be done wit hteh typical boxing structure.
    Now for the second, I'd say the very term boxing is viewed way to narrowly here. After all, just remember what the term "boxer rebellion" was used for. Then again, if you take just one synchronic look at boxing, i.e. the way it looks like in one particular era, it would be questionable if the boxin of today is actually competible with the boxing skills of yesteryear, and which one should or should not be referred to as boxing anymore.
  6. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    In that sense, then yes it is incompatible with western sports boxing and the more you should call it "Filipino boxing".
  7. Good points. I also think it would be better to say "Incompatible with the sport of boxing".

    Taking the Chinese example Wing Chun is sometimes referred to as "Chinese Boxing".

    Taking the Wing Chun example and taking it a step further....people say that Wing Chun is incompatible with cage fighting.

    The real reason could be:

    A) They're scared and have too much too lose
    B) They are unwilling to adapt their system to fit in with the framework of competition. The rules, the dis-allowed strikes, the gloves, the referee etc, etc.

    A professional soccer player does not make a professional rugby player - it's a different game. But given a bit of practice both of them can shoot the ball in the goal as it's the same motion and muscles involved...
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Well, boxing as an entire strategy may not work well in an FMA context, but I throw my cross often and my jab when needed, and cover boxing-style with my free hand when that's appropriate...I find they work well together.
  9. Certain FMA systems only use single stick (i.e no double stick in the system) because the originator was a boxer and wanted the free hand to punch...

    You can also see some rapid knife strikes that look a bit like boxing too.
  10. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    I feel boxing works extremely well in context with FMA....Perhaps the question should be does boxing work well with YOUR FMA?

    1. strong lead as in fma

    2. delivery of rapid strikes as in fma

    3. can be used in a sport or street arena as fma can be as well

    4. the working of proper angles as fma

    5. body mechanics very similar to fma..rooting, torque, using the hips etc.

    6. intent to hit hit and hit..same as fma..also the defensive nature in boxing is similar..cover up, smother, off angle, move the head etc.

    To some they may see many differences but to me it works perfectly... I boxed for a long time and find it fits in perfectly. Boxing also flows nicely into silat and wing chun ( wing chun flowing into boxing and back again is devastating and quirky, but it damn sure works)'s just movement...hands are hands folks...good foot movement no matter the source can always transcend into one another. It is up to the practitioner to find the key that unlocks pure and simple motion. Truth be told I think boxing is a solid addition to any martial curriculum..from conditioning to solid punching principles and principal of good movement.

    As others mentioned, boxing as a sport has rules one must adhere to, that is a given..but if you are building your street boxing from the root of boxing then all other strikes now become viable and enhanced due to the solid foundational pricnipals of good old fashioned boxing.

    Put a knife in a boxers hand and tell me it doesn't translate to good fma...LOL...

    "If you screw things up in tennis, it's 15-love. If you screw up in boxing, it's your ass." - Tex Cobb
  11. NJMMADude

    NJMMADude New Member

    PG Michael B said it all.

    I used to train at a boxing gym here in Trenton. Before I did I trained in Inosanto Kali and JKD, and didn't do well with the empty hands in an alive scenario. After boxing for a little while, I found that my Panantukan skills shot way up in an alive setting, and so did all of my other skillsets (knife, stick,etc).
  12. Shaun

    Shaun New Member

    I do not think FMA is incompatible with boxing.I believe in essence it works well with boxing.
    For me personally if you are translating FMA weaponry (strictly speaking) directly to empty hands there is a difference.
    This difference being longer and lower stances needed to maintain balance when wieldind a weapon.The striking is going do be different.You are not just using jabs,crosses,hooks and uppercuts.
    The body torquing however,is very similar.

    No,we should not get rid of the term Filipino boxing IMHO as I take this term to mean not modern sport boxing, but more akin the old pugilistic bare knuckle street fights where most things (butting, elbows knees etc.) were demmed acceptable.

    If I could post this clip of me doing some Lightning empty hands.
    This feels quite different to me, compared to when I am doing 'conventional' boxing, where I am standing more upright and using jabs,crosses etc.This said there is a definite cross over of technique.
  13. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member

    First - Mr. PG Michael B jab-right hand-hooked the correct.

    Second - I was extremely lucky to be able to train under Tuhon Roberto Torres for about three years and we learned Kali, Kuntao, Pentjak Silat, and Western Boxing. The boxing training has given me so much it's hard to quantify. It has acted as a lense to view things through and its skill sets definitely transfer - and like stick sparring without any safety equipment - it gives you a measuring stick (no pun intended.....) that others may not have. And lastly, I will be always grateful for that training as it has served me well in a number of arenas.

    So my opinion is a strong "Yes" - Boxing and FMA are very compatible...

    -wes tasker
  14. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Wes , I concur in your overview of the boxing flow with FMA...a lense indeed, good analogy!
  15. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Senior Member

    boxing and a shameless plug

    I also find boxing to be very compatible with FMA's. To those who consider that boxing consists only of forehand strikes: that's true to some extent - but consider also that every forehand strike done with one hand implies a backhand strike done with the other as the opposite shoulder pulls back. There is also a wide repertoire of "dirty boxing" techiques that are banned from the ring (e.g. collapsing a hook into an elbow, etc.) and various "cutting" punches from the days of bare-knuckle fighting (the rules of which often allowed grabs, throws, cinches, etc.)

    One of my teachers (Bill Schettino) teaches a FMA-informed weapons system that uses the same body-mechanic as his empty hand system. This is basically a form of internal boxing/kick boxing wherein power is generated from the legs and torso and transfered through to whatever is striking. He has an interesting DVD out that describes how to generate punching power in a boxer's framework - a mechanic that, as I stated above, works well with FMA's as well. Worth a look at:

    I consider Bill a "coach's coach" with respect to his ability to take anything that you do, whether it be striking, grappling, or weapons, and make you better at what you do. Bill has a wide variety of students ranging from beginners to seasoned martial artists, internal boxers, MMA fighters, and LEO's, etc. He'll certainly help you find some respect for the connection between boxing and FMA's.



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