Another Silat question...

Discussion in 'JKD-Kali' started by Pitboss 306, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Pitboss 306

    Pitboss 306 New Member

    I plan on travelling to train a bit with Guro Dan, and I have a question i'd like to toss out in advance to those folks who may know...

    As I learn and study more about different Silat systems, I see so much similarity to techniques I learned as empty hand Dumog or Pangamut when I trained Kali. Footwork, Puter kapala, leg scissoring, guntings, Siko destructions, etc... There is also a great deal of similarity between what i was taught as Pangamut and the Panantukan that I have seen in videos. Kali, Dumog, Pangamut, Panantukan or Silat? Can anybody shed light on this?
  2. Fan the Madman

    Fan the Madman Circles with Knives

    I think the best answer there is that Guro Dan has had many good teachers and many good students. And obviously he is little short of a legend himself.

    Kali and Silat fight, f**k, and bleed all over one another. Anytime one catches a cold the other one starts sneezing. "Kali" is in many ways what happens when you take classical Eskrima/Arnis de Mano and hold it close to the flame of Silat, Jeet Kune Do and JMA (all depending on which angle you come at it) and then spread it all around the world like good soft butter on toast.

    Things mix, blend, influence, counter-influence etc.
    But the best way I ever heard it put is
    "Kali and Silat fight, f**k, and bleed all over one another!"
  3. Shawn

    Shawn New Member

    There's a great video Guro Inosanto has out on Silat (title escapes me at the moment) where in the opening introduction he quicly runs throught different ways to deal with a strike. He says something like "here is something Bruce Lee showed me" then proceeds to do a split entry and backfist, then "here is something John Lacosta showed me" and shows a split entry with a gunting and backhand strike...then names a few more instructors from different systems and shows that each way of dealing with the strike is almost the same. I think it all circles back to a quote from Bruce where he says that as long as you have two legs and two arms there are only so many ways to fight.
  4. UrBaN

    UrBaN New Member

    Kali IS a form / type of Silat.
  5. Fan the Madman

    Fan the Madman Circles with Knives

    As long as you say that with the proviso that Eskrima/Arnis de Mano most certainly is NOT a form/type of silat I wouldn't argue with the above statement too much.
  6. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Yep, it should be common knowledge that escrima is NOT a type of silat.
  7. UrBaN

    UrBaN New Member

    It should be common knowledge that escrima (eskrima) is NOT kali.
  8. Fan the Madman

    Fan the Madman Circles with Knives

    That's very true Urban.

    If you see someone dance with a kris with Ganesha on the hilt, or do movements with a weapon shaped like Alif.. then you know you are in silat territory (i.e. Hindu or Muslim roots, possibly some animism).

    When someone raises their blade in the Tero de San Miguel.. then you see an art whose roots hearken back to the Christian warriors of Europe.

    Ultimately one of the biggest distinctions to my mind is...
    "Did the men who made these arts what they are pray to Mecca.. or did they kneel before the symbol of Cavalry?".

    And btw.. though I practice a Catholic art in arnis.. I'm an atheist :D
  9. Raul

    Raul Mananandata

    Imagine if you have techniques called tagang San Miguel, Fraile, Cruzada etc. in your kali? That's blasphemy!Unless you're so cool that you can afford to mix and merge, blend and breed kali with the cross.
  10. Fan the Madman

    Fan the Madman Circles with Knives

    Raul you've nailed it exactly right.

    For another perspective look at Pencak Silat Cimande. There are people out there who claim (very persuasively) that at least some of the older flavors of Cimande had significant amounts of "animal" mannerisms and movements tied into the art.

    However in Indonesia today (under the influence of Islam) Cimande is considered a "human" art. No animal mimicry .. no sir. All about making you a good Muslim.
    Cimande is "clean" of those un-Islamic animist influences.

    So it seems to beg the question.. why would an art whose roots are Hindu and Muslim use SO MUCH Christian and Hispanic terminology and imagery?

    The answer is that Eskrima and Arnis are not arts with significant roots in Hindu and Islamic faith and culture.

    As for "Kali".... well.. the Bible says "By their fruits ye shall know them!".

    And if the apple bears the sign of the Cross... what sort of tree do you think it fell off of?

    It fell off a Muslim pear tree of course!

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