An open challenge too Datu Tim Hartmann

Discussion in 'Pekiti-Tirsia Kali' started by Gilla, Oct 28, 2008.

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  1. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    If it was my call I'd just pust up their logos up there... Either that or delete the styles forums and just generalize the whole thing...

    "One country, one art"
  2. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    Oooor, we could stop worrying about whose mugshot's on the forum and just have mature discussions about the effin' arts!
  3. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    Which is not true since Tatangs style differs (afaik) quite a lot from the "family system" due to his other teachers. ;)
  4. blindside

    blindside student

    Fair enough, I make no claim to be an authority. I will say that every history that I have read keeps saying "family system" or that Tatang studied under someone who did something really similar to the family system.

  5. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise Senior Member Supporting Member

    It does seem like we are worried about nothing. The system in question has it's own forum. I think that is pretty cool and I love to hear and talk about Pekiti Tirsia. [​IMG]
  6. fangjian

    fangjian Jo Dong

    Sorry for beating a dead horse but:

    I reread the original post and it said "if you win, I'll apologize , and if you win..."

    Sometimes a little scrap can be beneficial and make friends out of people, but, if you think someone is wrong about something, them kicking your ass shouldn't make you 'make a public apology' , vice versa. If someone is wrong, they're wrong. I'm not leaning on either side of the fence here.

    Might is right, I guess. lol
  7. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    Not necessarily political purposes. he IS the only one running the PTK style right now. If it is the Nene/Leo political thing that worries people, well it shouldn't because Nene calls his style Dekiti Tersia and he is the grand master of his own style. Just Like Leo Gaje is the Grand Master of his style. No history has proven any different that I have seen. And as far as i see it, i have the utmost respect for both of them. I have worked with both of them, I like both but i got very close to grand Tuhon leo Gaje over the years and immerced myself in the style as best as i could.

    I mean, I don't give a crap if his pic is up there or not. I will pop in anyway ad give my say (even when I spell words wrong ;) But I think it would be respectful to put his pic up there due to the fact that he is the living grand master promoting the style today. Not to mention this generation of evolution of the style is his doing.

    Maybe in 35 years or so, you can put Phil or Tim or Rommel's pic up there. Or all 3, with more to come by then! Maybe even me![​IMG]
  8. 5tirosCamarin

    5tirosCamarin Katulong Guro

    There's only one language in the Philippines, then, right?

    I'm not trying to be a jackass, but the Philippines is a little too complex to be grossly generalized thus.
  9. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    There are many "dialects"... Not languages... The Philippines may be complex and that is the reason why there are so many political BS surrounding FMA... I see all the political BS in this forum already...
  10. Brock

    Brock Asha'man

    The political BS isn't exclusive to FMA. I trained in Okinawan Karate prior to my FMA and the politics were just as bad. It's just the nature of the beast in martial arts. Wanna' really boggle your mind check out an American Kenpo forum. That art's got more grandmasters than students I think.
  11. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    Political BS, Huh? The only political bull that is spread is by the people who are still trying to stir the pot of fecal matter.. Leave well enough alone and let the forum moderators regulate the comments and take appropriate action as needed.. We are guests in this forum, so try and not get started spreading the fertilizer by stirring the pot.. These type of actions and comments are what started the last forest fire which resulted in a lot of changes in the PTK forum..

  12. Ron Kosakowski

    Ron Kosakowski New Member

    You mean its not just FMA's? heheheh[​IMG]
    I am a wanna see politics? Whew`~ I just broke myself away from the others who all claimed grand master and sole heir and everything else when my teacher died...people who were not even around him that long. I had to make a choice, get away from them or kill them. I wanted to stay outa jail so I shose to get away and ignor it. It worked out well for me not saying a freakin thing and now people come to me for Kuntao. What is the old quote? you get more with honey than vinigar or something like that?

    I am sure you all have a similar story in your style outside PTK. Its not just PTK![​IMG]
  13. wes tasker

    wes tasker New Member


    I think I got you beat.... :)

    I practice and teach Pekiti Tirsia, Kuntao, and several systems of Pentjak Silat........ I think the scary moment will be when I get used to the politics and they cease to disgust me.....

  14. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I feel your pain... I am a kuntaoer also and have been in more flame and firefights in regards to both the Chinese and Filipino Kuntao that I teach.. I broke away from all organizations some 20 yrs ago and the sheeple that came in after me are fecal stirrers to try and make themselves seem to be the high and mighty heirs to the throne and their illusions of self grandeur.. Buzz and I have recently been the focus of several tirades by junior people who's parents weren't even married when we were in the arts.. Between Buzz and I, we have close to 75 yrs of practicing these arts and yet we are classified as renegades and outlaws because we don't follow the footsteps of the others..

  15. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    Grand Master Ron!!!:cheers:
  16. The Phalanx

    The Phalanx FMA's Frank Lucas

    You got Ron beat? I hope you're joking...
  17. 5tirosCamarin

    5tirosCamarin Katulong Guro

    Let me explain what I meant...

    The officially accepted term for the linguistic variations that exist between Tagalog, Cebuano, Hiligaynon, etc. names each a "dialect." However, I chose to use the word "language" because there is often too big a difference between one dialect/language and the next in the Philippines to accurately refer to each as a "dialect."

    For example, a Spanish speaker from Argentina will not likely need an interpreter to understand a Spanish speaker from Spain. Argentine and Castillian are "dialects," meaning that they are slight variations on the same language. However, a Filipino from Luzon Province may need an interpreter to understand a Filipino from Cebu, depending on whether or not the one from Luzon understands Cebuano. Note: I'm only saying this because my sister-in-law is trilingual at a native level in Tagalog/Cebuano/Ilongo and she was integral as an interpreter in negotiations between speakers of the three at her job in the Philippines.

    I was therefore rhetorically equating the idea of "One Country, One Art" to the idea that every Filipino should be able to understand every dialect/language in the Philippines, which is simply not true. It's like trying to trace pencil lines with a wide paintbrush.
  18. Twist

    Twist Junior Member

    Well, actually, I think there are also more than enough different languages.

    I think there is a huge gab between Bahasa Tausug or Ilokano and the Visayan language group, with the Warayan and Ilongo languages somewhere in between. Also, you cant really ignore either Hokkien nor Chavacano, ... not even English ;)

    I like Philippine diversity !

    Ang di lumilingón sa pinanggalingan, di makararatíng sa paroroonan. (Tagalog)
    Daydiay saán nga agtaliaw iti nagtaudanna, saán a makadánon iti papanánna (Ilocano)
    A diri maglilili sa pinaggalinan diri makaabot sa pasasadtowan. (Rinconada Bikol)
    Nan tákho ay achi manmanmek sinan marpowána, achi metlaeng makad-enan sinan omayána. (Guinaang Bontok)
    Say ag to amta so onlingaw ed nanlapuan to, ag makasabi ed laen to. (Pangasinan)
    Si tawon kai magtanda' lumingap sa ibwatan na, kai ya mirate' sa keen na. (Bolinao)
    Ing e byasang malikid keng kayang ibatan, e ya makaratang keng kayang pupuntan. (Kapampangan)
    An dai nalingoy sa hinalean, dai makaabot sa padudumanan. (Naga Bikol)
    An dai tataung maghiling sa pinaghalian, dai makaabot sa saiyang papadumanan. (Partido Bikol)
    Quien no ta bira cara na su origen no de incarsa na su destinacion. (Caviteño Chavacano)
    Ay nung sabi mira i donde ya bini no di yega na destinasyon. (Ternateño Chavacano)
    I tolay nga ari mallipay ta naggafuananna, ari makadde ta angayanna. (Ibanag)
    Yu táwlay ya ammé natatáw ya langngín yu naggafwánan na, ammé na makígad yu angán na. (Yogad)
    Iya madi lumaw-ing iya geyatan; madi makedateng iya pegturungan. (Adasen)
    Ino ammena mallangngi so naggabbuatanna, mena macadatang so angan na. (Gaddang)
    Hay ahe nin nanlek ha pinag-ibatan, ay ahe makarateng ha lalakwen. (Botolan Sambal)
    Ya tolay nga adi malliplipay cha naggapgapuanna, e adi macalbet cha angngayan na. (Malaueg)
    Sota agto gwingien i edapoanto, agto sebien i dagwanto. (Ibaloy1)
    No sefay agto amtan unvingi ni adafoanto ag-onmotok shi dawanto. (Ibaloy2)
    Hay cae tanda mamanomtom ha pinangibatan cay immabot sa cacaon. (Tina Sambal1)
    Yay kay ampamalingay ha ibatan, kay makaabot ha kakaon a dogal. (Tina Sambal2)
    Yo dili batid magsuringay sa kiyang pinagharean, mai makaabot sa kiyang pupuntahan. (Northern Catanduanes Bikol)
    Ang dai magsaringoy sa hinalian, dai makasampot sa padumanan niya. (Viracnon, Southern Catanduanes Bikol)
    An diri maaram magrumdom sa nakaagi, diri maka-kadto sa kakadtuan. (Sorsoganon Bikol)
    Kan idi naglingoy sa pinag-alian, idi makakaabot sa paidtunan. (Oas, West Miraya Bikol)
    Su indi tataw makarumdom nung ginitan, indi makaabot sa adunan. (East Miraya Bikol)
    Y tolay nga mar'rina ammu innan sit'aw iggina haggafu, eh marri iggina makakadde kang angyanan na. (Itawis)
    Nan tagon hapun na ammu ilan nan marpowana, hapun met laeng makachatong hin ayanna. (Pasil Kalinga)
    Yu di nikiling sa pinagalinan, di makaantos sa pupuntahan. (Buhinon Bikol; Autonym: Boienen)
    Din adin mantuwili sin napoan na, adi makadateng sin emeyan na. (Kankanaey)
    Nan tagun adi manguhdung hi nalpuwana ya adi ah'upan di ayana. (Batad Ifugao)

    Ro uwa' gatan-aw sa anang ginhalinan hay indi makaabut sa anang ginapaeangpan. (Aklanon)
    Kadtong dili molingi sa gigikanan, dili makaabot sa gipadulongan. (Cebuano)
    An diri maaram lumingi han ginagi-an, di maulput ha ginkakadtuan. (Waray Waray)
    Ang indi makahibalo magbalikid sa iya nga ginhalinan, indi makalab-ot sa iya padulungan. (Hiligaynon)
    Ang indi kamaan magbalikid sa anang ginhalinan indi makaabot sa anang aragtonan. (Kinaray-a)
    An diri maaram magkita sa ginhalian, diri makaabot sa pakadtoan. (Masbatenyo)
    An dili maaram maglili sa ginhalian, dili makaabot sa iya kadtuan. (Buriasnon, Masbate)
    Ang bukon ning ansyano magsiro sa ginghalinan, hay indi da makasampot sa iya ning pakadtoan. (Romblomanon)
    Ang indî antigo maglingig sa ginhalinan, indî maka-abot sa pakadtu-an. (Cajidiocanon (Romblon))
    Ka indi magsauli/magmuyat sa ginghalinan ay indi makaabot it ayuntaran/apagtuan. (Asi, Romblon)
    Ang hindi magsuli sa ginghalinan ay hindi makaabot sa pagtoan. (Caltravanhon Romblomanon)
    Ka daok mag muyat it idang inghalinan, indi makapadtoy sa idang apakadtoan. (Bantoanon1)
    Kag tawong waya giruromroma it ida ginghalinan, indi makaabot sa ida apagtuan. (Bantoanon2)
    Ang indi antigo maglingat sa guinghalinan di kaabot sa pakadtoan. (Sibuyanon)
    Ang indi kausoy magbalid sa ginghalinan ay indi makaabot sa anang ayanan. (Inunhan, S. Tablas)

    El hente ke no sabi mira donde ele estaba hinde ele pwede liga donde le anda. (Zamboangueño Chavacano)
    Su taw a di makatadem sa nabpunan nin na di makasampay sa ebpawangan nin. (Magindanaon)
    Tao mata taya mabiling su pubuakengnge taya dumanta su kadam tangi. (Sangil)
    Tô dì sumérê katô igtikudan, dì makadunggù tun ta pasadunan. (Tagabawa Manobo)
    So mga tao adi matao milay sa pip'hunan, ay di makauma sa p'sungan. (Iranun)
    Ke etew ne kena edlilingey te impuun din ne kena ebpekeuma diya te edtamanan din. (Ilianen Manobo)
    Ka otow no kono ogkatou to pogpitow to pigligkatan din, kono oglopow to ogdoogan din. (Langilan Manobo)
    Iddos minuvu no konnod kotuig nod loingoy to id pomonan din, konna mandad od poko-uma riyon tod undiyonnan din. (Obo Manobo)
    An dili molingi sa ija gigikanan dili makaabot sa ija pasingdan. (Surigaonon)
    So mama a di nian katawan so poonan nian na di pakaoma ko sungan nian. (Maranao)
    Ang tao nga di mangyat moatud hong gigikanan, di makaabot hong kadtoan. (Butuanon)
    Yang utao nga di matigam mubalikid sa gigikanan, dili muaabot sa kakadtuan. (Mandaya)

    Ang indi matakong bomalied ong pinagalinan, indi makabot ong palaningan. (Agutaynen)
    Soysoy niya' pandoy ngantele' patulakan ne, niya' ta'abut katakkahan ne. (Jama Mapun)
    Amu in di' maingat maglingi' pa bakas liyabayan niya, di' magsampay pa kadtuun niya. (Tausug)
    Ang indi nakaelam ang anang ing alinan, indi na maelaman anang papakunan. (Palawano)
    Anggai atao palengi ma katinnaan na anggai atekka ma lahatna. (Bangingi Bajao, Siasi)
    Amba makatao palengi ma katannaan na amba takka ma lahatna. (Sibutu Bajao)
    Ambal atao palengi ma katennaanna ambal atekka malahatna. (Bajao Laut)
    Gai tau nganda mingga ka battad, gai takka ma patannanna harapingga ka. (Syamal)
    Gey tau mayam sibukutan, gey tau tekka kaditaran. (Yakan1)
    A'ahin bang ga'i tapikilne bang antag tagna'annen, ga'i ta'abutne papi:hannen. (Yakan2 [: = vowel length])
    Dili an malam magblikid ta iya na alinan, dili makalambat ta iya na ilingan. (Kagayanen)

    Nu di masulib a umidit du pinakayapoan na am makarapit ava anti du paypangayan na. (Ivasayen Ivatan)
    Nu di makachideb du pinakayapuan na am makangay ava du panguanan na. (Isamurong Ivatan)
    An sinoh o di masulib a umlinay du chinayapwan na am makarahpit alih du hayan na. (Itbayaten)

    Ti unman madunong magbantay sa gininanan ay unman makaras-og sa kay paatabgan. (Hanunoo)
    No yewed managuli sa rakayan, egbatay karateng sa pagtabuyan. (Alangan)
    Ka idwa madunong eg takfili it nagfunan idwa dumasog hat bato lahawan. (Buhid)
    No fuktaw hadwa bumontag idwan dasog at bato lawan. (Bangon)
    Kung dapo katawanan agpangkit sa biyatangan dapo ka sa piyagpatanganan kalateng. (Tadyawan)
    Ag nawod kamatang mamaliwi sa pauriyan ba nanawodtay ratong sa paunaan. (Iraya)
  19. silat1

    silat1 Active Member

    I think it is time for this thread to be put to bed before it expands into the flame war that started with the banning of some of the former members of this forum..

    But this is one person's observation
  20. 5tirosCamarin

    5tirosCamarin Katulong Guro

    I won't make any threats or challenge anybody to a death match, I promise. I was only clearing up what I meant. I'll say no more on the matter :)
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