A question

Discussion in 'Misc. Knife Arts' started by Imua Kuntao, May 14, 2008.

  1. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

    Does anyone know of any knife attacks or fights with knives that actully involved an FMA person (excluding the late great Willy W.) within the last 10 years?
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Here's a famous one.
  3. Imua Kuntao

    Imua Kuntao New Member

    Yes. I know about that and the one where a guy went to a party or rave or something, thought someone was getting out of hand and stabbed the guy in the leg and he bled out trying to drive away. What I am curious about is, Has an instructor ever been charged with something his or her student did, or have been held accountable for teaching a deadly technique (arteries as targets and other vital areas)?
  4. pesilat

    pesilat Junior Member

    I don't know the specifics but I talked briefly to the one of the instructors who had taught the guy in Queens (Dana Blake, I think). The instructor - who I won't name - did have to give statements and, I think, appear in court.

    I'm not sure if they tried to hold him (the instructor) accountable at all or not.

    There was also an FMA instructor (in Florida, I think) who had trained one of the 9/11 hijackers. Apparently, the hijacker was a complete sandbagger. He seemed like a really down-to-earth and decent guy. He'd even participated in some religious discussions in the group and never came across as having any particular religious bent at all. The hijacker apparently had a keen interest in blade training and took some private lessons in blade from the instructor. Scary, scary.

    I'm not sure how I feel about liability for these situations. The closest I can think of is when I was a bartender (in Indiana - not sure about other states). If someone was obviously drunk it was my responsibility to cut them off. If I didn't cut them off and they got busted for DUI (especially if they'd been in an accident) then I could be held responsible to some degree and, if memory serves, the bar could lose their liquor license.

    This is similar - but, as with the hijacker, it's not always easy to tell someone's intentions. And there may never have been wrong intentions. Maybe the person just overreacted. It's certainly regrettable but I'm not sure how much, if any, liability should be assigned to the instructor unless it can be proven that the instructor was just plain negligent (i.e.: if there'd been some sort of hint about the intentions of the 9/11 terrorist and the instructor ignored it).

    This is one of the reasons that I (and the Sikal organization in general) is pretty reserved about teaching blade usage. I'll readily teach empty hand vs. blade methods to just about anyone. But I'm much more reserved with blade usage.

    Of course, it should also be remembered that a blade, by its nature, is about as "K.I.S.S." as it gets. As Alejandro (Antonio Banderas) put it in "Mask of Zorro" - "The pointy end goes in the other man." A blade in the hands of an infant is potentially lethal and the blade doesn't care one whit about intention. While we know that to use a blade well is more involved, it's still a blade and has been an integral part of the human toolbox for killing (people as well as animals for food) and agriculture. Maiming/killing with a blade doesn't require any special training.

    So for this reason I think the bulk, if not all, of the liability should fall on the shoulders of the person who actually used the blade. If it was justified then kudos. If not then pay the piper.

    Last edited: May 15, 2008
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Apart from what pesilat mentioned, I don't know of a case of an instructor being considered for being held (criminally or civilly) liable. I imagine there are some First Amendment rights at play but I'm sure there are also limits to that. Of course, I do know many instructors who worry about it, for both moral and legal reasons.

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