360 Degrees of Striking Proficiency

Discussion in 'Lameco' started by Guro Dave Gould, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    As most of you know in Lameco Eskrima we have 12 variations of our Alphabeto-Abecedario (Basic Strikes). As well we strive to utilize these strikes in a non-telegraphic manner in delivering the strikes without announceing intent until the strike is well under way and enroute to the target of choice.

    But on a more advanced level we forego the traditional strikes and strike fluidly out of a mobile 360 degree circle. Punong Guro Sulite used to teach us that in delivering ones strikes from a fluid 360 degree circle we have not 12 angles of striking but rather 360 points of initiation, counter and completion. As we evade attacks to the hands, head and body by evasively moving our weapons in a circular manner when provoked we are able to strike and counter with intention from that circle at any time that it becomes necessary without sacrificing speed, power, timing or announcing intent in the process.

    I have found based on numerous sparrings with various people that it is harder for my opponents` to adapt and adjust to random striking regardless of where the tip of my weapon is from within the fluid circle as I can strike on available opportunity immediately with devastating effect once revealed to me. Since it is not normal to have no beginning and no end to ones method of striking this increases the difficulty for my opponent to adapt and adjust to the most immediate threats faced in combat.

    As well with the tip of your weapon always facing out centerline violations are kept to a minimum and recovery measures are facilitated for the small amount of tme that center is violated when maneuvering. As well wth the tip of the weapon facing out while moving in a circle the distance between you and your opponent is automatically 50% breached requiring less distance to be traversed in attacking or counter attacking as soon as opportunity is revealed in real time.

    Striking out of the fluid 360 degree circle goes well with the hand evasions that we train in Lameco Eskrima and when you master both you become very effective as you maximize gain while minimizing risk in the process.

    Guro Dave Gould.
     
  2. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Could you please say just what do you mean under "stick pointing out"? Like pointed towards the opponent, as in fencing...or something else?
     
  3. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    Dragan,

    Exactly, the tip of the weapon should always be kept pointing toward ones opponent be it Garote, Itak or Baraw. Punong Guro Sulite would refer to this principle as fighting "Walang Bunot" an influence of "Tatang" Illustrisimo charging us to keep the tip trained on ones opponent at all times.

    "Walang Bunot" means to never have the tip of the weapon pointing behind you or "throw" it behind you when you strike but always negotiate it pointing toward ones opponent as this reduces centerline infractions and increases centerline recovery and non-telegraphic striking.

    In terms of the 360 degree circle the tip of the weapon will always be pointed away from the body and toward ones opponent with the only exceptions being hand evasions such as "Pluma" where the tip will temporarily be thrown behind the body to evade an attack to your weapon hand and then quickly be recentered by countering with "Bagsak" down the centerline, or center mass.

    In striking out of the 360 degree circle it does not matter where the weapon is from any point of the circle we can strike any of our strikes regardless of starting position. For example a #1, #4, #6, or #7 strike can be delivered with effect regardless of the starting position from anywhere along the 360 points of reference as can a #5, #8, or #10 thrust.

    By not having a traditional "Starting" or "finishing" point in delivering and completing ones strikes it is much more difficult for your opponent to determine which strike that you may throw as you can throw any strike with effect without announcing intent from anywhere within the 360 degree circle. This is the principle of striking "Palong De Kadena" also influenced from "Tatang" Illustrisimo.

    I hope that this clears things up for you. Train well, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    Mr. Agbulos demonstrated some of this to me at the seminar in Buffalo!

    Does this mean not retracting the stick and hence giving up some power, or retracting it to the "nearest" point in some sense? The latter is what I took away from my previous brief exposure to Lameco!
     
  5. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    Arnisador,

    With Itak or baraw we always strike "Walang bunot" (not throwing the tip of the weapon behind us) But with Garote we still uphold the principles of De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal in striking with full power and follow through but we will always recover center quickly with appropriate recovery strikes and finish with "Bagsak" along the center line leaving us in an ideal location to deal with any forth coming counter activity.

    So power is never sacrificed and if we do strike "Walang Bunot" with garote it is only done so in an attempt to recover center or for moderate pain distraction in an effort to manufacture opportunity where we can deliver adequate finishing strikes in an attempt to end the situation once and for all.

    As for bladed weapons we are charged to always strike 'Walang Bunot" in never retracting or throwing the tip of the weapon behind us on delivery or recovery as it is not needed being an edged and thrusting weapon. The power that we generate with bladed weapons is done so through striking "Hiwang Martilyo" (hammer strike) where the tip of the weapon on impact will be thrown as you would use a hammer in striking a nail into a piece of wood. It is still "Paikot Maliit" (small circle) and delivered in accordance to "Walang Bunot" principles always leaving the tip of the weapon in front of the body being ever trained on ones opponent.

    Whereas this is not the case with impact weapons as momentum and space is required in order to strike with full power on impact. Howevewr hand harrassments, wetiks, abanikos and deflections can be delivered with great effect in striking "Walang bunot" with garote but when it is time to finish your opponent you must strike with full power any time that an impact weapon is being used.

    Either way in the advanced levels of Lameco Eskrima we strike not from traditional starting and finishing points but rather randomly from 360 degrees of reference as found within a fluid circle with the tip of the weapon facing ones opponent. This requires alot of practice and hundreds of hours of sparring but once assimilated and actualized this develops your combative capability to great heights.

    Train well, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Active Member

    OK, I think this is what I was shown! Thanks.
     
  7. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Yep, that helped a lot! Especially the post pointing to differences in working with stick and blades. Anyway, I guess there is still a lot of work to be done for me, before I move to some of those concepts and principles.
     
  8. PG Michael B

    PG Michael B Oso Grande

    Same way Maestro Yuli and myself teach the BaHad....tip to target we calls it. We employ this in our circle walking as well. We also employ it no matter the weapon whether it be with praction, redondo, fluid, patik etc....it is simple and to the point and definitely feeds into the enganyo factor. Great write up Guro Dave.
     
  9. geezer

    geezer Member

    OK, I believe you already answered this for Arnisador...but I'm a little slow on the uptake and not previously familiar with the terms "walang bunot" and "bagsak". But it seems like you are saying that with bladed weapons you keep the tip pointed toward your opponent and close to centerline so that with a small, quick movement you can zap 'em from any angle. But with a stick, where you need to generate a lot more power, you may set 'em up the same way and sting 'em, but you do draw back more to generate power for the finishing move. If that is what you mean, It seems that the ability to generate "short-power" with a stick so you can chamber tip-forward and hit hard without drawing back would be especially important.
     
  10. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    Geezer,

    Thanks for responding. Now to respond to your queries, you wrote:

    >>> "OK, I believe you already answered this for Arnisador...but I'm a little slow on the uptake and not previously familiar with the terms "walang bunot" and "bagsak"." <<<

    "Walang Bunot" means "not to throw something behind you" but rather keep it in front of your body. Hence the tip of the weapon in this case should always be pointed forward and never behind in reference to the body. "Bagsak" means to "be centered" straight ahead of you along a vertical line.

    >>> "But it seems like you are saying that with bladed weapons you keep the tip pointed toward your opponent and close to centerline so that with a small, quick movement you can zap 'em from any angle. " <<<

    This is correct... The less distance violated from center the less distance required to recover center once violated. The secret concerning bladed weapons is to learn to generate great power on impact in the smallest measurable distance alloted without telegraphing intent in the process. We do this striking "Hiwang Martilyo" (Hammer slash) which acts like the piston of a train as it pushes the wheel forward and retracts the piston in order to push the wheel again, agian and again.

    >>> "But with a stick, where you need to generate a lot more power, you may set 'em up the same way and sting 'em, but you do draw back more to generate power for the finishing move. If that is what you mean, It seems that the ability to generate "short-power" with a stick so you can chamber tip-forward and hit hard without drawing back would be especially important." <<<

    Mostly incorrect... In iniating one should never pull ones strikes back before striking as this announces intent to strike, which is like someone screaming at you that he is GOING TO STRIKE YOU before he does. We always strike from where we finish from anywhere within the circle and once we react to opportunity revealed it is counter attacked by going immediately forwrd from where we are currently, not so much where we would prefer to be. As you can not have preferences in combat, you train to deal with the situation on someones elses schedule and not your own as when you are forced to defend life and limb more then likely it will be necessitated of you and not chosen by you.

    Not the initiation of the strike but rather the follow through after you push your strike through will create the violation as with garote we don`t stop the finishing strikes short and maintain the tip of the garote in front of the body as we would with Itak or Baraw, but rather we throw the tip behind us with full follow through which requires a quick recovery strike in an attempt to regain center with urgency and then finish "Paikot Maliit" (small circle) down the center line with the tip of the garote trained on our opponent should any counter activity be further encountered. Other wise you are dead on in your rekoning concerning what I was trying to convey to the forum.

    Michael,

    I prefer the "Praksyon" in quickly countering sudden unexpected attacks and counter attacks, especially with a long pinuti as it takes very little risked to extract alot of gain. With the tip of the weapon constantly trained on your opponent it almost seems too easy at times, God forbid that your opponent telegraph his strikes and announce intent. Then we take this to a diffferent level with the "Kalabit" grip in centering the "Punoyo" instead of the tip that "Tatang" Illustrisimo favored, with all things considered No wonder "Tatang" was so deadly and Kali Illustrisimo so devastating in bladed combat.

    I hope that this helps... Train well, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
  11. geezer

    geezer Member

    Got it. Thanks, Guro Dave
     
  12. bmcoomes

    bmcoomes Manaois' Systems

    Guro Dave,
    The term "Palong De Kadena" I'm finding confusing I've heard of De Kadena but not Palong, so I went and looked it up. I found that is means Cock's Comb which is the fleshy part on the top of a roosters head. Or is could simply mean comb. Now what am I missing? How does; chaining and a comb make a logical conceptual model?

    Thanks,
    Brent
     
  13. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    Its "De Kadena"... Palo (Palong pluralizes it) is cebuano for striking hence striking "De Kadena"... Its not the language that is of importance but combative ability, technique, principles and concepts that matter most to me.

    Regards...
     
  14. bmcoomes

    bmcoomes Manaois' Systems

    Guro Dave,

    I understand that the language is not important part but clearing up confusion furthers the transfer of the all important combative ability. Thanks, that makes all the sense in the world now. I like the principle and concept.

    Respect,
    Brent
     
  15. Guro Dave Gould

    Guro Dave Gould LAMECO ESKRIMA SYSTEM

    No worries Brent as I have stated before I can only speak on a very rudimentary level concerning tagalog and not being a native speaker there will always be oversights and mistakes.

    When I was training with Punong Guro Sulite he would teach primarily in Tagalog and I was not allowed to take comprehensive notes until the class was completed. So on the drive back to my house after training with him I would try and configure my notes for the day and write down as much as I could before I forgot.

    Since Edgar spoke 5 dialects of the Pilipino language he would often mix words from different dialects. For instance when he would refer to a technique from De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orihinal he would refer to it representing the language which he would communicate with Manong Caballero or any of the other systems and Masters with whom he trained and express their ideas in their distinct language of choice.

    So my being a non-native speaker I could not tell the difference between Illongo, Cebuano, Waray, Tagalog or Visayan which are the dialects that Edgar spoke. It was all Pilipino to me and when I teach I tend to teach as Lameco Eskrima was taught to me, linguistic flaws and all. Every once in a while you can expect a little linguistic hick-up from me concerning Tagalog but I hope that you can excuse that and focus on the context of material being discussed.

    I am no writer and I will never claim to be one, I am first and foremost a fighter that can convey with relative ease what is in my head and translate it into word format. There is a huge difference between the two, I can assure you. Anyway I apologize for the confusion...

    Train well, ciao.

    Guro Dave Gould.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2008
  16. bmcoomes

    bmcoomes Manaois' Systems

    not a problem, that way they made questions. I'm not a native speaker either so were in the same boat.

    Thanks,
    Brent
     
  17. gagimilo

    gagimilo Member

    Still, with your ability to put your knowledge of FMA training into words, this should not stop you from being an author. I, for one, would be the first to read your works.
     

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